Blogs 4 Brownback

November 30, 2007

Political Power in the Pulpit

Filed under: Guest Posts,Mitt Romney,Mormonism — Sam Brown @ 6:56 am
Tags: ,

B4B is honored to present this guest post written by Jeffery Curtis Foli, the former mayor of Chillicothe, Missouri.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Mitt RomneyHow far should religious leaders be able to go before they cross the line and breach the legal separation between Church and State, and who will hold them accountable? Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, Gordon B. Hinckley, Oral Roberts, and some Catholic leaders are just a few who have challenged these issues.

I hope it is not the case, but if my story is any indication, Mormon religious leaders will take Mitt Romney aside as needed and help him remember just where his ultimate loyalties lie. I, as well as Mitt Romney, have made sacred agreements to support the interests of God’s future kingdom, as we see it within the Mormon perspective. But are individual religious interests and National interest always necessarily the same? In the case of a President Mitt Romney, is what is good for the Mormon people, equally good for all the citizens of the USA, and will the leaders press him?

I don’t know if Mitt ever had this issue before him in the past while serving as Governor of Massachusetts, but this possibility was twice made clear to me while I was serving as Mayor/CEO of the City of Chillicothe, Missouri. During one incident, I was taken into church offices and verbally threatened, by President and Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley via Stake President, and attorney, Detlif Lehnardt in a private meeting, with excommunication if I did not rescind my recently proposed legislation. I believe Federal Law (Tax Code Title 26 section 501) states that a Church cannot engage in such activity.

In another incident, Mormon leaders confronted me and told me to support the Mormon party line on a specific issue instead of what I knew was legal, honest, and in the best interest of those in my City. Since my oath of office was to represent the citizens of my City, and not the interests of the Mormon Church, I pressed each issue as far as I could in an appropriate way. I believe we can serve in both capacities in an open, honest, and honorable way, if the leaders will just keep their noses out of places they don’t belong.

Charges and complaints have recently been filed with the Sheriff of Livingston County Missouri, the ACLU, and the IRS. At each and every turn, these charges have been stonewalled, with no one wanting to challenge the accountability. The Mormon Church is enormously popular as well as powerful.

Just to reiterate, I ask, will Mitt Romney be his own man if elected, or would he be controlled by Religious Leaders? The multi-million man re-migration of Mormons to Missouri could be triggered in a small way just by the election of Romney. These issues are not at all isolated to the Mormons, I am sure.

Jeff FoliJeffery Curtis Foli
Former Mayor
City of Chillicothe, Missouri
1999-2003

48 Comments »

  1. Mr. Foli, I think you make a very compelling argument for keeping one’s church loyalties separate from one’s public responsibilities when one is holding government office.

    I appreciate you sharing your story, your concerns and your point of view.

    Comment by Psycheout — November 30, 2007 @ 7:09 am | Reply

  2. An excellent post. One’s religious beliefs form a person’s foundation — one would hope that a person’s religion would have taught them integrity, kindness, honesty, courage and moral fortitude: all qualities that we seek in our elected representatives. Religious leaders, like parents, should instruct and guide their charges in the best way that they know how, and then allow them the freedom to make their own decisions, trusting that they have provided their charges with the best possible tools for ethical and wise decision-making.

    Comment by Lyssie — November 30, 2007 @ 8:10 am | Reply

  3. Just one question here, you do realise that he’s a Liberal don’t you?

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 8:16 am | Reply

  4. Actually, I’m pretty sure that Foli’s a Libertarian. But his party affiliation has nothing to do with the subject matter, does it?

    Comment by Psycheout — November 30, 2007 @ 8:23 am | Reply

  5. could be, depends on how you look at it, doesn’t libertarian mean “classic liberal”?

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 8:26 am | Reply

  6. So what you’re basically saying, Arn, is that you couldn’t care less about what Mayor Foli had to say, right? So why comment in this thread at all then? And please, don’t answer that and don’t go on an off topic rant.

    Foli is a guest here for this one post on an important topic. It would be awfully decent of you if you could be a little more respectful to him, even if you personally can’t stand me.

    Comment by Psycheout — November 30, 2007 @ 8:34 am | Reply

  7. However, you are just making a liar out of yourself by saying that party affiliation has nothing to do with the subject, almost every post and comment made by the members here have been to praise the Republican party and slam every other party, when the most slammable party is the Republicans, I don’t belong or subscribe to the ideals of any political party, but if I were to choose which party was the worst of the bad (they are all bad, but that’s mainly because politics itself is a historical mistake) that would be the Republican party, we are living with the results of their mistakes now, and it’s drawing the whole world into conflict. And if you think there hasn’t been plans made for war against Iran, think again, Cheney had plans for an attack on Iran drawn up years ago, so the recent dispute with them was already planned way before it actually started, and whether you want to believe it or not, oil, not terror is at the bottom of Bush’s insistance that we stay in Iraq, that’s why he just made plans to set up permanent bases there, to guarantee we would stay there for years or even decades, and he plans on those bases being used for the upcoming war with Iran. Of course you folks love him, you want to bomb everyone and so does he.

    * * * * * * * * *

    [Psycheout sez: Comment restored. I didn’t want this BDS comment to derail the thread. Now that some time has passed, giving this thread a chance to stay on topic, I have restored it. It had nothing to do with Arn disagreeing with me, but out of respect for Mayor Foli, I wanted to avoid having this thread disintegrate into a pie throwing contest instead of a discussion of the important issue that he brought up. Thanks for your understanding, moonbats.]

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 8:42 am | Reply

  8. Psycheout: Just show one word of mine that was disrespectful to him. All I said was that he was liberal, and he is and he doesn’t deny it. Whether it’s called Libertarian or Liberal doesn’t matter, they mean the same thing. You disrespect him every time you insult liberals, and you do that regularly. I have respect for him and his veiws, and I didn’t say a word to that could be taken otherwise. You take offense at everything whether offense is intended or not.

    [“So what you’re basically saying, Arn, is that you couldn’t care less about what Mayor Foli had to say, right?”]

    Wrong, how the hell did you get all that out of the words “he is a liberal” you should stop trying to talk for other people, you’re no good at it.

    On topic, church has no place in politics. The seperation of church and state is for a reason. We have feedom of religion here (or at least we used to) so we are all free to belong to whatever religion we please and pray to whomever we please, or not at all, our choice. To give the church power in politics would be fatal for government (it always has been) the church had the power of government before, we called it the dark ages.
    To put power in the hands of the church would mean first to decide which church or churches to give it to (of course here you would naturally claim your own church should have the power, but that’s more typical of Republicans than of any church) and since throughout history there have been more wars started over religion (at least on the outside, greed is usually the underlying factor) than any other cause, you give churches power in a country with as many diverse religions as there are in the U.S. it wouldn’t be that long before this country tore itself apart in the name of God, Allah, Mary, Jeebo, and a host of others. And the ones he speaks of is the Mormons, and are you really sure where he stands on it? He says he made a vow to support the Mormon church if he was elected to a place of power (such as the presidency) as did Romney, yet the rest seems to point to the idea that he would go back on that vow and expects Romney to do the same. I really think he should have clarified his stand on the issue rather than recount what happened to him twice. But by his last line I would say that he and I were in agreement, that the church shouldn’t have power in government. [“Just to reiterate, I ask, will Mitt Romney be his own man if elected, or would he be controlled by Religious Leaders?”]

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 9:12 am | Reply

  9. Deleted, way off topic, MOD you’re full of it, it was a response to psycheout and you know it, or are you psycheout today?

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 9:15 am | Reply

  10. Wait, are the B4B writers supporting separation of church and state? finally, some sobriety! it’s good to see that at least one politician isn’t going to run his position into the ground to further religious agendas.

    Comment by Elephant Bones — November 30, 2007 @ 9:32 am | Reply

  11. I agree that there should be a separation from church and state. The far outer fringe right has been trying to turn America into another (insert name of Middle East Fascist Theocracy)for far too long. May the likes of Robert Grant, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and Ed McAteer of the imMoral Majority burn in Hell as well the Christain (wrong) Right organization.

    …..and very true, Jeffery Curtis Foli is Liberal.

    Comment by Spacebrother — November 30, 2007 @ 9:48 am | Reply

  12. MOD, ED, whoever, you have my email address, why don’t you email me a copy of my comment that you deleted. I yelled at you because I said it was a response to psycheout, but then I saw my response to him, so now I have no idea what the hell it was you deleted. I don’t remember posting another comment there.

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 11:03 am | Reply

  13. Must be the pot, I knew it would get to me sooner or later.

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 11:05 am | Reply

  14. Poor Arn, are you unwell? I always find it so sad to see people who have smoked so much pot as to fry their short-term memory. Alzheimer’s is such a terrible disease — I’ve never understood the rationale behind deliberately bringing on the same symptoms through one’s leisure activities.

    Comment by Lyssie — November 30, 2007 @ 12:00 pm | Reply

  15. Thank you for sharing your views with us, Mr. Foli.

    Shut your mouth and show some respect, Arn.

    Comment by Sisyphus — November 30, 2007 @ 2:55 pm | Reply

  16. [Shut your mouth and show some respect, Arn.]

    Excuse me Sisy, who did I just disrespect?

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 3:15 pm | Reply

  17. I certainly support keeping the Mormon church separate from American government. I’m amused that anyone would find that surprising. Who would possibly take the contrary position?

    Comment by Psycheout — November 30, 2007 @ 3:40 pm | Reply

  18. “Who would possibly take the contrary position?”

    Maybe a platypus would do that, the king of platipii just mailed me that he doesn’t like you and your friend 666siphus.

    Comment by Moxom — November 30, 2007 @ 3:43 pm | Reply

  19. The pleasure of reading your work is mine, Mr. Foli.

    Just ban Arn. He’s probably frightened off the poor man, and that would be a shame, since he has such intellect.

    Comment by Bob_Corker — November 30, 2007 @ 4:30 pm | Reply

  20. Mitt the Mormon Manchurian Candidate

    Comment by dadaclu — November 30, 2007 @ 4:30 pm | Reply

  21. Ban KKKorkkker, he might stick a burning cross in Liberal Foli’s front yard.

    Comment by Spacebrother — November 30, 2007 @ 4:32 pm | Reply

  22. Dadaclu, it’s a good thing those two adulterous Commie scumbags were murdered. By her own son (his stepson) no less! This just goes to show that Commies can sometimes be so stupid, even those they brainwash soon revolt against them.

    Comment by Bob_Corker — November 30, 2007 @ 4:42 pm | Reply

  23. [Just ban Arn. He’s probably frightened off the poor man, and that would be a shame, since he has such intellect.

    Comment by Bob_Corker — November 30, 2007 @ ]

    Just ban me, Bobbyboy? what the hell are you so afraid of? You’ve wanted me banned for awhile now, and so far I have called fewer names and used fewer obscenities than anyone else who posts here regularly, (don’t argue that point, anyone who can count can verify it, and you folks’ cute mis spellings for vulgarity count as vulgarities)I have shown no racism period, because I have none, and I have thrown the lowest number of insults, in fact I haven’t even said moron, idiot and stupid have been my only insults, unlike yours which have been numerous and for the dumbest reasons.

    So why is it you are so obsessed with having me removed? If I scare you, tell me why, maybe I can make it all better.

    Comment by Arn — November 30, 2007 @ 8:20 pm | Reply

  24. Two clarifications for the bloggers.
    1) I was first elected Mayor as a Republican. My second term I was re-elected as a Libertarian. Why I ran as a Libertarian had less to do with ideologies and more to do with helping others run for City Office. Had I forced a primary election to decide the Mayors race, I would have interfered with other important primary races in the other parties. Since the Mayors race was more a choice between men (my oponent being a multi-term City Councilman) than a choice between parties, I felt it was best for me to stand alone in that election for the good of others and ultimately for the good of the City.
    2) Arn stated that I “made a vow to support the Mormon church” if I were elected to a place of power. I said, “I, as well as Mitt Romney, have made sacred agreements to support the interests of God’s future kingdom, as we see it within the Mormon perspective”. From my perspective, my oath of office had nothing to do with my allegence to my loaylty within the church. To me they are totally different arenas with clear cut seperation. That is why I had a problem.
    Jeff Foli

    Comment by jeff foli — December 1, 2007 @ 1:20 am | Reply

  25. By the way, its been four years now, and I have yet to be excommunicated.
    Jeff Foli

    Comment by jeff foli — December 1, 2007 @ 1:22 am | Reply

  26. I am interested in sharing ideas, not waging wars of personal attacks. If you believe my reasoning breaks down, challenge me. Let’s see if our ideas square with sound principles and reasoning.
    Jeff Foli

    Comment by jeff foli — December 1, 2007 @ 1:26 am | Reply

  27. Jeff: Thank you for addressing what I said and clarifying the difference between your words and how I undeerstood them. I assumed you actually meant you took an oath to them when you mentioned the sacred agreement to support them.(or rather, your veiws of the Mormon perspective)
    I was honestly confused on your stand on the issue. I understood it to mean that you made an oath and would be willing to go back on it and expected Romney to do the same, that was obviously my misunderstanding of your words.
    So in reality, it seems you are in the same place I am here (figuratively anyway) You also don’t believe that the government should be run according to the wishes of the church. That was my only real confusion, you told what happened to you with the church, but you didn’t really divulge your inner feelings about the situation, in the end, how you really feel about it is more important than what happened, because how you feel would help decide how you would handle it in the future were the situation to present itself again.

    Comment by Arn — December 1, 2007 @ 9:56 am | Reply

  28. What little I know about Jeff suggests to me that he is not afraid to stand his ground even if others don’t like it. Perhaps even more so if they don’t. You might want to read what someone who knows Mayor Foli has to say about him. He sounds like someone you’d like, Arn.

    Comment by Psycheout — December 1, 2007 @ 10:19 am | Reply

  29. There will be those who will want to attack me and call me a liar for saying these things happened to me, but I know it, and I know that God knows it, and I will not deny it. I am confident that time and investigation will bring out the truth for anyone really interested. I still consider myself a Mormon, whether or not they want me, and believe many of the precepts. I want to associate with those who are interested, open, and not afraid of the truth. With the coming mass movement of Mormons to my home State of Missouri, I believe I will have the opportunity to work with a small number of those honest in heart, and I will continue to support the Mormon Church the best that I can, whether they choose to support me or not. There are however, real issues I believe need to be cleaned up and adressed. Many of my views will not sit good with the hierarchy, but they need to realize that there are people watching us all, who, over time, will be able to judge our actions, intents, and motives. The hierarchy has a confortable cushion of protection that I do not enjoy, but i am keenly aware that there are those watch dogs and attack dogs that will do thier best to discredit me in any way they can. I am not a perfect person, but I am willing to discuss openly real issues, which is more than my seeming opponents are often willing to do.
    Jeff Foli

    Comment by jeff foli — December 1, 2007 @ 11:33 am | Reply

  30. I cant believe I am begining to like you Arn. I see you are begining to understand me more. Thank you for being open enough to try to understand my perspective. I is very refreshing.
    Jeff Foli

    Comment by jeff foli — December 1, 2007 @ 11:37 am | Reply

  31. G-d is the ultimate judge, Jeff, not the church. The church is made up of people, who are, by their very nature, imperfect. Do what is right by G-d, and I’m sure you know what that is. That’s the way I see it.

    I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That is what guides me.

    Comment by Psycheout — December 1, 2007 @ 1:08 pm | Reply

  32. AMEN!

    Comment by jeff foli — December 1, 2007 @ 1:11 pm | Reply

  33. “I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That is what guides me.”
    Comment by PsyKKKeout

    Theophilia…..hahaha…..you are the antichrist indeed PsyKKKe…

    Comment by Photonic — December 1, 2007 @ 2:29 pm | Reply

  34. Thank you for the compliment Jeff.
    However, it is only fair to also let you know that I don’t believe in the church at all, (any of them) and neither do I believe in politics, so naturally I would be against the idea of combining the two. Politics in general is mankinds longest running mistake (about 6000 years I think) and the church, while most have their good and bad points, they all believe their own religion to be the true religion, and with all the contradictions from one religion to the next that is impossible. Even the scientologists believe their religion to be the one true religion, I just haven’t quite figured out exactly what the evil little alien has to with it.
    I have my own belief in who, what and where God is, and frankly there’s not a church on earth that agrees with it, but I will live by it the rest of my life because I believe it is right anyway.
    And don’t be too surprised when the folks that work here start telling you that I’m a smelly pot smoking hippie that went insane long ago, actually, that’s about half right anyway.
    So, thanks, and the feeling is actually mutual, it’s good to have someone actually answer questions in a straightforward manner with honesty for a change, comments on the board start to make more sense that way.

    Comment by Arn — December 1, 2007 @ 2:29 pm | Reply

  35. “G-d is the ultimate judge, Jeff, not the church. The church is made up of people, who are, by their very nature, imperfect.”
    Again, we find common ground. I think this thread could be the start of some level of cooperation and respect among opposing sides on this site. I’m all for it; i’d rather have rivals or opponents than enemies.

    Truce, people?

    Comment by Elephant Bones — December 1, 2007 @ 3:40 pm | Reply

  36. here’ a totally off-topic question for anyone here member or visitor.
    I just re-read some of my comments here and on other pages, do I use the word “actually” too much? I never say it when I talk, but it seems I see it in everything I write, and apparently I don’t even realise I’m writing it.
    Sorry to stray there, I just thought it was weird.

    Comment by Arn — December 1, 2007 @ 5:14 pm | Reply

  37. Arn,
    I respect your ideas and am open to consider what you think. I do not need you to buy my perpective to be happy. I am actually more comfortable in differnce than I am in similarity. I dont get challenged when all those around me feel the same way I do, and for me that is often very boring. Good to meet you! I was Missouris only elected Libertarian, but I do not support legalizing pot yet. I cant quite square it yet. As for what you do, that is up to you, but I hope it doesnt effect me or anyone else in a harmful way. For the most part, and in general, my rule is, does what you do or believe hurt others? If not, then I must try to respect difference.
    Jeff Foli

    Comment by jeff foli — December 1, 2007 @ 6:04 pm | Reply

  38. Jeff: Ordinarily I wouldn’t do this on this site, largely because of the argumentative aspect of the site, and partly because of the sites rule that they own all words (copyright) that are posted here, but I am going to take my belief that at this moment Psycheout is doing the monitoring (I hope you are, psyche) and that he has the respect to not alter or otherwise use what I say in any other context. I will copy and post here what I have written before on my own site. It is in no way connected to any religion, but it is nontheless my own personal belief on where God comes from and what he really is, (to me anyway). And it may also clarify why I don’t believe in church or religion.

    As for the issue on marijuana, I will leave most of that to other posts that deal with that issue. I do see the strong opposition to it and the extreme laws governing it as a seventy year old mistake, and the proven medical uses by far outnumber the unproven dangers of it. Sure I joke about losing my mind etc. from smoking too much pot, but in reality those are just that, jokes, mainly to amuse those that believe the Anslingers of today. My memory and thought processes are fully intact, and after 40 years of smoking marijuana I have suffered absolutely no adverse effects from it, either physically or mentally. Although most of my comments on the subject revolve around its medical uses, my own use of it is still strictly for recreational purposes, and it is the only thing I do along that line, I don’t drink alcohol or use any drugs, not even prescribed pain killers, which I get prescribed regularly for pain in my lower back (DDD), but I never fill the prescriptions, a joint relaxes me enough to ease the pain to bearable levels.
    But I digress, I said I wouldn’t go into that here. (just ask anyone who knows me, I do tend to ramble from time to time.)

    Comment by Arn — December 1, 2007 @ 6:51 pm | Reply

  39. WHERE IS GOD? REALLY?

    IN THE BEGINNING GOD CREATED THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH. THE BOOK OF GENESIS TELLS US THIS. BUT WHO TOLD THE WRITERS OF THAT BOOK? WAS THE WORD PASSED DOWN BY CAVEMEN WHO HAD NO LANGUAGE? IF GOD SPOKE TO ADAM AND EVE IN THE GARDEN OF EDEN, HOW DID WRITERS THOUSANDS OF YEARS LATER KNOW WHAT THEY SAID TO EACH OTHER? IS THE BIBLE A TRUE ACCOUNT OF MAN’S RISE ON PLANET EARTH, OR ONE OF THE GREATEST WORKS OF FICTION EVER WRITTEN?

    TO CREATE SOMETHING AS VAST AS THE UNIVERSE WOULD TAKE MAGIC THAT GOES WAY BEYOND ANYTHING EVER IMAGINED BY THE CHARMED ONES, DAVID COPPERFIELD OR CHRIS ANGEL. IF WE WERE CREATED IN HIS IMAGE THAT WOULD MEAN THAT HE LOOKS LIKE US, AND IN ALL PROBABILITY WOULD BE ABOUT THE SAME SIZE AS US ALSO, A TINY SPECK IN A VAST UNIVERSE THAT HE CREATED.

    AND IF THE BIBLE IS TRUE, WHAT DOES THAT SAY ABOUT THE OTHER RELIGIONS? EVERYONE OTHER THAN CHRISTIANS ARE WRONG AND THEY PRAY TO DEITIES THAT DON’T EXIST?

    THE HUMAN MIND IS AN AMAZING THING, IT HAS THE ABILITY TO REASON AND TO MAKE LOGICAL CHOICES WHERE OTHER ANIMALS ACT ON INSTINCT. IT CAN CREATE IMAGES WITHIN ITSELF AND THEN GUIDE THE HANDS TO MAKE THOSE IMAGES TAKE SHAPE IN THE PHYSICAL WORLD. IT CAN USE MATHEMATICS AND SCIENTIFIC PROCEDURE TO EXPLAIN ALMOST EVERYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE AROUND IT.

    BUT IT CAN’T EXPLAIN ITSELF, OR EXPLAIN IT’S EXISTENCE HERE ON THIS PLANET. WE HAVE NO IDEA WHY WE ARE SELF AWARE OR HOW WE CAME INTO OUR OWN SELF AWARENESS. BUT MAN HAS A UNIVERSAL NEED TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING, NOT BECAUSE HE IS CURIOUS BUT BECAUSE HE IS AFRAID. MAN FEARS EVERYTHING THAT HE CANNOT EXPLAIN. AND HIS BIGGEST FEAR IS THE FEAR OF DEATH. NO ONE ALIVE CAN EXPLAIN WHAT IT IS TO BE DEAD.

    BUT GOD GIVES US AN ESCAPE FROM THAT FEAR BY LETTING PEOPLE BELIEVE THAT DEATH IS NOT FINAL BUT ONLY A NEW BEGINNING TO AN ETERNAL LIFE IN A BETTER PLACE. SCIENCE EXPLAINS WHAT RELIGION DOES NOT, AND RELIGION EXPLAINS WHAT SCIENCE CAN’T, SO THE TWO WORK TOGETHER TO ALEVIATE THE FEARS THAT RESIDE DEEP INSIDE EVERY HUMAN BEING.

    MAN EVOLVED ON THIS PLANET JUST AS ALL THE OTHER ANIMALS EVOLVED HERE, BUT MAN’S BRAIN EVOLVED BEYOND THOSE OF OTHER SPECIES AND WE DEVELOPED A THIRST FOR KNOWLEDGE A NEED TO UNDERSTAND EVERYTHING IN THE WORLD AROUND US, BUT WE COULDN’T UNDERSTAND OURSELVES. BUT ANCIENT PHILOSEPHERS FINALLY FOUND A WAY AND THEY CREATED GOD IN OUR IMAGE AND THEY GAVE THIS GOD A NAME.

    IN AFRICA HE WAS NAMED JEEBO, JENGU, MAMI WATA AND WAAQ. TO THE ANGLO SAXONS: SEAXNE’AT AND WODIN. TO THE AKAN: BREKYIRIHUNUADE. TO THE CHINESE: SHANGDI. TO THE CHRISTIANS: JEHOVA.

    THE GREEKS, THE HINDUS, THE ROMANS, AND COUNTLESS OTHER PEOPLES GAVE NAMES TO A DIFFERENT GOD FOR EACH PART OF LIFE AND EVEN FOR EACH SEASON. AROUND THE WORLD FROM THE WESTERN HEMISHERE TO THE EAST EVERY AREA HAD IT’S OWN DIETIES. SOME HAD ONE SUPREME GOD AND OTHERS HAD MANY GODS AND THEY ALL HAD THEIR SCRIPTURES AND STORIES TO MAKE KNOWN THE WISHES OF THESE GODS FOR MAN.

    SO IS THE CHRISTIAN GOD THE REAL GOD? OR IS JEEBO OR WODIN THE TRUE GOD?

    THE TRUTH IS, NONE OF THEM ARE CORRECT YET ALL OF THEM SERVE A VERY VITAL PURPOSE IN PEOPLE’S LIVES. THEY GIVE THEM SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN, SOMETHING TO HAVE FAITH IN, FOR WITHOUT FAITH MAN BECOMES NOTHING. FOR THE SAME REASON THERE IS NO WAY TO PROVIDE PROOF OF THE EXISTENCE OR NONEXISTENCE OF GOD, FOR PROOF DENIES FAITH AND WITHOUT FAITH GOD, TOO, BECOMES NOTHING.

    SO WHERE IS GOD,,,,REALLY?

    GOD IS INSIDE EACH AND EVERY ONE OF US. GOD IS THE FAITH WITHIN US THAT ALLOWS US TO BELIEVE IN HIM REGARDLESS OF WHAT NAME WE CHOOSE TO CALL HIM BY. HE IS THAT SPARK INSIDE EVERYONE THAT ALLOWS US TO LOVE RATHER THAN HATE. IT IS OUR OWN INNER GOD THAT COMPELS US TO STOP AND HELP WHEN SOMEONE IS HURTING AND TO TREAT OTHERS WITH KINDNESS RATHER THAN CRUELTY.

    IT DOESN’T MATTER WHETHER A TRUE GOD EXISTS OR NOT, OR WHETHER A SUPREME BEING CREATED US IN HIS IMAGE. IT DOESN’T MATTER IF ALL OR NONE OF THE RELIGIONS ARE TRUE. WHAT MATTERS IS THAT OUR BELIEF IN OUR RELIGION LEADS US TO FIND OUR OWN INNER FAITH THAT WILL COMPEL US TO BE BETTER PEOPLE, AND TO ASPIRE TO BE MORE THAN WE ARE, FAITH TRUELY CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS, BUT EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY IT CAN MOVE HEARTS TOO.

    THEY SAY THAT GOD CANNOT BE LOOKED UPON DIRECTLY, AND THAT’S TRUE, HE CAN ONLY BE SEEN IN REFLECTIONS, TO REALLY FIND GOD AND TO SEE GOD ALL YOU NEED DO IS LOOK IN A MIRROR.

    AND HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF.

    —————————————

    I know many of you from all sides on this site will disagree with me, however, don’t bother argueing with me about it, I will not respond to insults or arguements, we all have opinions when it comes to God, this is mine, no amount of preaching or quoting the bible will change that, as I have said before, I’ve spent years studying the bible (the Book of Mormon too) and have been preached to all my life, but this has been my idea of God ever since I was a child, and none of you are capable of making me change that opinion now, so to try to convince me otherwise now will be a waste of time.

    Comment by Arn — December 1, 2007 @ 7:08 pm | Reply

  40. Amen. I respect you views.

    Comment by jeff foli — December 1, 2007 @ 8:59 pm | Reply

  41. i like the way that the conversation has been going in this thread. jeff foli has proven himself an approachable politician who respects both sides of the issue. that being said, i respectfully suggest you spellcheck your posts before hitting the submit button. poor grammar and spelling can make anyone’s words less effective in the debate, and when both sides have meaningful material to contribute, we certainly don’t want that happening.

    Comment by Elephant Bones — December 1, 2007 @ 9:16 pm | Reply

  42. uh oh EB, have I been rambling and making grammatical errors again? I really can’t spellcheck myself, if I think I got it right the first time I’m not gonna catch it in the re-read, I’m a school drop-out anyway, so my spelling probably has something to be desired, but hey, at least I finally figured out where the letters are on the keyboard, now if I can just train my fingers to use the right ones.
    I agree, this thread has shown more honesty and less bullheadedness than any of the posts I’ve seen so far. It makes for a much more enjoyable conversation.

    Comment by Arn — December 1, 2007 @ 9:27 pm | Reply

  43. i was making the suggestion to everyone, but to Jeff Foli in particular, since i notice his typos most. i like what he has to say, but spelling and grammar errors tend to trip me up like a rock when i read.

    Comment by Elephant Bones — December 1, 2007 @ 10:48 pm | Reply

  44. and before anyone calls me on it, i know i make errors too. i’m only human, after all.

    Comment by Elephant Bones — December 2, 2007 @ 4:33 am | Reply

  45. As a latter-day saint (what most “mormon’s” refer to themselves as) I have trouble with believing this story. First off- the only things our leaders do politically connected to the church is to tell us we have a duty to vote, period. They believe strongly in separation of church and state, and in obeying the laws of the land. Secondly- the only other political things that the church gets involved in is if they are a moral issue- Such as gay marriage, they have worked for a marriage amendment that defines marriage as being between a man and woman only.
    Any Stake President who threatened you with excommunication for political reasons (which he can’t do on his own, he has to convene a church court) could possibly be in danger of that himself.
    And if this is true- why hasn’t Harry Reid been excommunicated? He has certainly done things politically that many members of the church are unhappy with. They even had him speak at BYU, imagine that.
    The only thing that Gordon B. Hinckley (who passed away Jan 28, 2008) said to Romney about running for president (he did go speak to him before he made his announcement- not for marching orders, but because he knew it would put the church in the limelight) He told him it would be very interesting for him if he won, and it would be very interesting for him if he lost.

    Comment by Kathy C — February 1, 2008 @ 11:17 pm | Reply

  46. FORMER CITY MAYOR TO BE EXCOMMUNICATED FROM MORMON CHURCH FOR NOT FOLLOWING ORDERS IN POLITICAL MATTERS?

    Probably because of the Romney controversy, on February 4, 2008, Thomas S. Monson said to Peggy Stack, reporter for the Salt Lake Tribune, that the church does not get involved in political matters. If this is true, then why, when I was Mayor of Chillicothe Missouri, was I was threatened with excommunication if I did not rescind a piece of Legislation that I sent to the Missouri State Legislature. It is supposedly against Fereral Law (Title 26, Section 501) for a church to influence legislation, but in 2003, the late Prophet Gordon B. Hinckley and his councilors thought it appropriate and acceptable to threaten my membership in the church when I was Mayor of Chillicothe in Northwest Missouri, regarding a political matter.

    On Feb. 17, 2007, the Church will hold a disciplinary Council (church court) on me because I let the public know of these acts via the internet, and I finally filed charges with the local Sheriff, the ACLU, the IRS, and others because of the continual manipulation and abuse of Mormon leaders. I tried for several years to quietly and internally settling these issues, but they would have none of it. They view my exposure and revealing of thier actions as my attempt to disparage and criticize leaders (evil speaking of the Lords anointed). They state, “those who reject Christ’s servants, reject him”. Why does leadership demand no accountability in Chuches for innapropritae actions of leaders?

    Do we think Brigham Young would have personally sought out those accountable for the senseless murder of 120 men, women, and children on SEPTEMBER 11, 1857, without pressure from the Federal Government? Who will protect us? Where are the checks and balances for questioning potential religious abuses? Most of the Mormon people are good, honest individuals, but the people of Missouri will not put up with this type of stronghanded influence. So as the Mormon Migration to Missouri continues, I hope the Mormon people will open their minds and become more careful and considerate of the people they meet. Most have no idea of what really happened in Missouri over 170 years ago, because the whole story was never fully told.

    Sincerely,
    Jeff Foli
    Former Mayor of Chillicothe, Missouri

    Comment by Jeff Foli — February 13, 2008 @ 3:00 am | Reply

  47. […] A few months ago, former mayor of Chillicothe, Missouri, Jeff Foli submitted a guest post, Political Power in the Pulpit, about his concerns regarding then candidate Mitt Romney based on his own experience with Mormon […]

    Pingback by Jeff Foli Update « Blogs 4 Brownback — February 19, 2008 @ 6:01 pm | Reply

  48. Im sure Mitt Romney will once again involve himself in politics. Being the former Mayor of Chillicothe, Missouri, I know how easy it is to get involved in the passion of the issues. Having come from a Mormon background, I would never have cut myself from the Mormon ranks, but in many ways, they have done me a great favor in seperating themselves from me. I just hope those Mormons who run for public office, do not minimize others and look down on them as “ignorant gentiles”. Missouri reacted to both of those words almost 170 years ago by issuing and extermination order against them. In spite of differences, respect for others and promoting civil dialouge should be promoted instead of pressuring people to conform to a party line or political agenda. I hope Mormon leaders weigh carefully what they do and how they choose to do it when it comes to matters of politics. I would really like to have a interview with Mr. Romney in a televised public forum and ask him face to face many questions. I believe it would truely be enlightening. I too am open to being questioned about my beliefs and stances on issues.

    Comment by Jeff Foli — September 17, 2009 @ 11:05 pm | Reply


RSS feed for comments on this post. TrackBack URI

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

Blog at WordPress.com.

%d bloggers like this: