Blogs 4 Brownback

July 11, 2007

Open Thread

Filed under: Open Thread — Sisyphus @ 7:41 am

Why do liberals hate America?  Discuss.

45 Comments »

  1. They hate Jesus Christ, Patriotism, and anything that resembles morality.

    Comment by Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett — July 11, 2007 @ 7:47 am | Reply

  2. “They hate Jesus Christ, Patriotism, and anything that resembles morality.”

    What I’ll never understand is, why? I actually hope a liberal or two will comment on this one. Maybe they can enlighten the rest of us as to why they hate us and want us to lose the War on Terror.

    Comment by Sisyphus — July 11, 2007 @ 8:00 am | Reply

  3. Oh it won’t be two minutes until some fool Democommunist has something smart alecky to say.

    Comment by Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett — July 11, 2007 @ 8:08 am | Reply

  4. I’ll enlighten, and I’ll keep it short….

    They don’t.

    See! Short!

    Comment by La Mona — July 11, 2007 @ 8:51 am | Reply

  5. i love america because of the taffy.

    Comment by poop stick — July 11, 2007 @ 9:01 am | Reply

  6. I don’t think they hate living here. They hate the Christian values and patriotic loyalty that make this the greatest country in the world.

    Comment by Helen Bock — July 11, 2007 @ 9:06 am | Reply

  7. Helen’s right. And yet they love to use hard-working Americans’ tax dollars to fix the sex, drugs and rap lifestyles their values created.

    Comment by Betty Hewson — July 11, 2007 @ 9:22 am | Reply

  8. I don’t hate anything, actually. I personally disagree with certain Christian values, but I don’t hate Jesus or Christianity. It’s just a way to live your life, and how can you hate that?

    Comment by Adam Nelson — July 11, 2007 @ 9:24 am | Reply

  9. And personally, I do not draw my morals from Christianity. I don’t agree with the fact that acting in fear of retribution is even morality, more like “morality at gunpoint”. True morals arise from men who do good, but who do not need to be threatened with eternal damnation to do them.

    Comment by Adam Nelson — July 11, 2007 @ 9:25 am | Reply

  10. The answer is simple: because they’re liberals. They can’t help themselves…it’s who they are.

    Comment by Psycheout — July 11, 2007 @ 9:40 am | Reply

  11. The rout it is they hate God because God demands they stop running around doing things like beating up old people, kicking dogs and raping children. To hurt God they go become atheists, learn French and become liberals. I mean just look at their causes; Global Warming, the left is just gloating over the damage they have done to God’s creation.

    Comment by BJ Tabor — July 11, 2007 @ 9:49 am | Reply

  12. Why do you think all liberals have no morals? Let’s check some statistics:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_murder_rate
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_dru_off-crime-drug-offences
    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/rel_chu_att-religion-church-attendance

    Compare the US and Sweden. Sweden is a bastion of leftism, liberalism and atheism, yet crime rates are much lower than in America.

    Comment by Von Bismarck — July 11, 2007 @ 10:27 am | Reply

  13. Where are all these Germans coming from? We’re being overrun by Old Europe!

    Comment by Psycheout — July 11, 2007 @ 10:30 am | Reply

  14. “The answer is simple: because they’re liberals. They can’t help themselves…it’s who they are.”

    Oh, sure, that’s who we are. That’s why I work here, invest here, am married to someone of the opposite sex, have two kids, have a house in the suburbs, and just want to be left alone…

    So I can continue to send my mixed-race kids to their Buddhist church on Sundays. So I can continue to drive Japanese cars. So I can continue friendships with both Christians and non-Christians.

    Why does Bush hate science? (Read the comments on Special Olympics. Why does W hate Special Olympics?)

    Stupid Surgeon General Story (to make Bush look bad).

    But, really, it’s okay; I recognize Brownback, when he becomes president (by winning a Kucinich-Brownback election), will hate science even more (which is why Canada will be the real winner in that election).

    [Ed Note: Please learn to embed your links, especially when they’re a mile long and link to propaganda. HTML isn’t hard. And when you make “jokes,” try to make them funny. There’s nothing less funny than Canada. If the answer is Canada, it’s a stupid question.]

    Comment by MikeM — July 11, 2007 @ 10:31 am | Reply

  15. I don’t hate America, but I’m not a liberal. But since you think I am, I’ll elaborate.
    I love America because of the freedom it affords. Freedom, for example, to worship any way you choose, be you Jewish or Christian or Muslim or Bhuddist or Hindu or Wiccan or anything.
    I love that my gay friends are allowed to be themselves, and not be arrested or shot or beaten to death in the streets, like they would be in some countries.
    I love that if America does something I don’t love, I have the ability to disagree with it, and to attempt to change it.
    I love the American culture, that gave us Poe, Hemmingway, and Handler; Scorsese, Tarantino, and Allen; Wyeth, Johns, and Pollock; Schulz, McGruder, and Waterson; Baker, Dorkin, and Winick.
    Here’s to America! THE GREATEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!

    Comment by Salmo — July 11, 2007 @ 10:38 am | Reply

  16. “Please learn to embed your links”

    Ironically, I’m a web programmer for a living.

    [Ed Note: Now that’s funny. Two points.]

    Comment by MikeM — July 11, 2007 @ 10:41 am | Reply

  17. I’m not a liberal and I hate America. How could I truly love any country that permits such brazen acts of heresy?

    Comment by Fascinated and Confused — July 11, 2007 @ 11:33 am | Reply

  18. LIE-brats hate themselves because they are low-life butt-scrapings.

    They hate anything that is better then they are (i.e. everything)

    Therefor they hate the greatest thing the most.

    And since America is the greatest, LIE-brats hate America the most.

    Q.E.D.

    Comment by Happy Clam — July 11, 2007 @ 11:38 am | Reply

  19. “Why do liberals hate America? Discuss.”

    Because that´s a stupid, idiotic, stereotypical, moronic fairy-tale/lie? That would be the best answer.

    And I don´t hate it, either. I disagree with quite a lot of it, but hating it? No, my hate is reserved for something more important.

    “And personally, I do not draw my morals from Christianity. I don’t agree with the fact that acting in fear of retribution is even morality, more like “morality at gunpoint”. True morals arise from men who do good, but who do not need to be threatened with eternal damnation to do them.”

    Soo much agreed. I actually pity everyone who has to rely on the fear of gods wrath to keep himself from becoming a burglar, murderer etc.

    “Global Warming, the left is just gloating over the damage they have done to God’s creation.”

    Someone seriously should inform himself here. Liberals think that Global Warming is not a good thing and it was invented by all humans. At least in the industrial nations.

    “Where are all these Germans coming from? We’re being overrun by Old Europe!”

    Seems like you got yourself a fanbase here.

    “[Ed Note: Please learn to embed your links, especially when they’re a mile long and link to propaganda. HTML isn’t hard. And when you make “jokes,” try to make them funny. There’s nothing less funny than Canada. If the answer is Canada, it’s a stupid question.]”

    It can only be even more stupid if the answer is “god”, “Bible” or “America”. Or “islamofascism”.

    ——————–

    [Ed Note: This is getting tedious. Shorten your comments to a best of PG and use blockquote tags to set off what you’re responding to. It looks like you’re mumbling to yourself on the subway or something. Please, please, please, refrain from responding to everything ever said in the entire thread, pick one or two strong points and make them. I’d hate to see your response in the Heliocentrism thread: it would make War and Peace look like a traffic sign.]

    Comment by PG — July 11, 2007 @ 11:46 am | Reply

  20. I’m Christian, but I’m not a moral person because I’m afraid of God’s wrath. Being a Christian for such reasons is a sad life. Though people usually do just get in and get their “hell insurance.” And they fail to see the purpose of it all. The Christian God is not one like a kid with a magnifying lense over an ant hill…at least not for me. All Christians are not like that, but your comments have been in response to the others anyways that claim to be “Baptist” (I don’t believe it.) and are so twisted in their set traditions and misconceptions….so…..

    Comment by La Mona — July 11, 2007 @ 12:07 pm | Reply

  21. La Mona,

    What do you think a Christian means when they describe themselves as “God fearing”? Do you somehow doubt there is judgment for the unrepentant wicked, that “Vengeance is Mine” is an promise from God? Do you really think God is just if He just lets Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot and Ted Kennedy in to heaven without even an “I’m sorry” from them? No, as Christian I reject that! People like Joseph Stalin , Pol Pot and Ted Kennedy must pay for their crimes. All the harm and pain they have caused other people demands it.

    Comment by BJ Tabor — July 11, 2007 @ 1:20 pm | Reply

  22. La Mona,

    What do you think a Christian means when they describe themselves as “God fearing”? Do you somehow doubt there is judgment for the unrepentant wicked, that “Vengeance is Mine” is an promise from God? Do you really think God is just if He just lets Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot and Ted Kennedy in to heaven without even an “I’m sorry” from them? No, as Christian I reject that! People like Joseph Stalin , Pol Pot and Ted Kennedy must pay for their crimes. All the harm and pain they have caused other people demands it.

    Comment by BJ Tabor — July 11, 2007 @ 1:36 pm | Reply

  23. Considering you do not know what I mean when I speak (you don’t comprehend) why do you try to use your logic to make sense of my own?

    Oh well, let me explain. “God-fearing” does not to be weak-at-the-knees I’m so afraid He’s going to smite me kind of fear. “Fear” equals “respect.” Which I do. I do not doubt judgement. But you fail to look beyond your “hell insurance.” Also, there is forgivness…otherwise no one on Earth is ever going to Heaven (you would think that that’s obvious…what do you think “repent” is?) and that includes YOU. You remember those two that died by Jesus–the two sinners? Remember the conversation that went on? They lived a life of sin, but forgiveness grants them Heaven. Or do you think that you can just be good enough? So long as you’re better than the next man it’ll be ok. I’m saying that Christianity is more than petty religion twisted in tradition. Jesus came and he challenged tradition. Jesus came and he challenged religion. Jesus came and he was relevant. Jesus came and he was personal. Jesus loved. What you people here show is a bunch of bitter souls locked in misconceptions that get a kick out of screaming at a bunch of people you don’t agree with. Tell me, can I explain more without you curling up and resorting to name-calling?

    Comment by La Mona — July 11, 2007 @ 1:58 pm | Reply

  24. “Considering you do not know what I mean when I speak (you don’t comprehend) why do you try to use your logic to make sense of my own?
    Oh well, let me explain. “God-fearing” does not to be weak-at-the-knees I’m so afraid He’s going to smite me kind of fear. “Fear” equals “respect.” Which I do. I do not doubt judgement. But you fail to look beyond your “hell insurance.” Also, there is forgivness…otherwise no one on Earth is ever going to Heaven (you would think that that’s obvious…what do you think “repent” is?) and that includes YOU. You remember those two that died by Jesus–the two sinners? Remember the conversation that went on? They lived a life of sin, but forgiveness grants them Heaven. Or do you think that you can just be good enough? “

    No, I know I have to also follow His commands and not break His laws if I expect to be with Jesus in Heaven.

    You’re fine one to complain about people not reading your posts; I am discussing the *unrepentant* wicked. Not those who ask Jesus for forgiveness. Yes, Jesus forgives those who repent. If Adolph Hitler said “I am sorry Jesus” before he pulled that trigger and blew his own brains out Hitler would be in heaven today, but as far as we know he didn’t.

    So my question to you is; do you really think Hitler gets into Heaven anyway?

    Comment by BJ Tabor — July 11, 2007 @ 2:55 pm | Reply

  25. The typical Lite-Christian likens their Jesus as some kind of Birkenstock-wearing hippie, passing out flowers and Get out of Hell Free cards at a carnival. True, fundamentalist Christians, however, know better.

    Comment by Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett — July 11, 2007 @ 3:03 pm | Reply

  26. “True, fundamentalist Christians, however, know better.”

    Indeed:

    “In order that God may separate the pure from the impure, put all the impure ones [all non-believers] one on top of another in a heap and cast them into hell. They will have been the ones to have lost.”

    “The punishment of those who wage war against God and his messenger and strive after corruption in the land will be to be killed or crucified, or to have their hands and feet chopped off on opposite sides, or to be expelled out of the land. Such will be their humiliation in the world, and in the next world they will face an awful horror.”

    Comment by Skeptic — July 11, 2007 @ 3:23 pm | Reply

  27. If Adolph Hitler said “I am sorry Jesus” before he pulled that trigger and blew his own brains out Hitler would be in heaven today, but as far as we know he didn’t.

    No, he would not be. “Thou shalt not kill” includes suicide. And afterwards, you can´t regret.

    ———————-

    [Ed Note: Nice try, PG, and thanks for making the attempt. You need to use angle brackets, like this:

    <blockquote>Insert liberal drivel here…</blockquote>

    Then you’ll be commenting like a pro! Except for the stupid content.]

    Comment by PG — July 11, 2007 @ 3:30 pm | Reply

  28. I think the blockquote thing is still giving you trouble, PG. Here’s how it works: you start by putting this:

    Comment by Sisyphus — July 11, 2007 @ 3:49 pm | Reply

  29. ???

    Okay, let’s try that again. Open-bracket, the word blockquote, close-bracket. Then, open-bracket, backslash, the word blockquote, close-bracket. That should let you blockquote.

    It looks like this, if done correctly.

    I hope that helps.

    Comment by Sisyphus — July 11, 2007 @ 3:50 pm | Reply

  30. Okay, let’s try that again. Open-bracket, the word blockquote, close-bracket. Then, open-bracket, backslash, the word blockquote, close-bracket. That should let you blockquote.

    I think the ED Note was enough, but thanks anyway.

    Comment by PG — July 11, 2007 @ 3:54 pm | Reply

  31. Haha, we tried to help dummy at the same time! This is compassionate conservatism for you. See how cool you are when you let Jesus into your heart?

    Comment by Psycheout — July 11, 2007 @ 3:54 pm | Reply

  32. Can´t see any differrence before and after, Psyche. I just know another console order now. My stance regarding christianity and jesus remains unchanged. I´m an agnostic and will ever be, except someone finally manages it to bring on real evidence concerning god´s (non)existence.

    Comment by PG — July 11, 2007 @ 4:18 pm | Reply

  33. Do you believe in love, PG? Have you seen evidence of it? Not really — people tell you about love, but they also tell you about God, so what does that prove, right? People do kind things for each other, but is it because of love, or is it due to a self-motivated desire to appear virtuous?

    If you only accept that for which you can obtain concrete evidence, then you are missing out on all that makes us human.

    Comment by Lyssie — July 11, 2007 @ 5:49 pm | Reply

  34. I’m sorry, but I still disagree with the whole God-fearing morality. Acknowledging and fearing judgement is just fine, but if it is your only moral motivator, then your moral existence is pretty bleak. Morality is all about the choices you make, and if someone tells you “be good or go to Hell!” that’s a pretty one-sided choice. The truly good man is the one who’s presented with “be good, or don’t”, and does good. Being scared or threatened into doing good is not true morality.

    Comment by Adam Nelson — July 11, 2007 @ 6:04 pm | Reply

  35. Being scared or threatened into doing good is not true morality.

    Spoken like a true athiest. Do they make you memorize this garbage? Garbage in, garbage out.

    Comment by Psycheout — July 11, 2007 @ 6:17 pm | Reply

  36. Being scared or threatened into doing good is not true morality.

    I don’t disagree with you, actually. However, I think too much focus is placed on those who act virtuously due to a fear of Hell. Those who are truly determined to act in an immoral or sinful fashion will not let a fear of Hell deter them, as they will often find some sort of moral justification in their own mind, which allows them to think that they are not truly sinning. I cannot speak for all those who posess faith, of course, but speaking only for myself, I see God as a benevolent parent and Creator, and strive to always conduct myself in a manner that will not sully my name, or the name of Christ. As a Christian, I’m fully aware that my own behavior does indeed reflect upon my faith, and have such love and admiration for Christ and for God, that the very thought of conducting myself in a way that does not honor them…well…why would I want to hurt and dishonor those who I love most? It is rather like having a boss who you deeply admire and respect. Your work improves not because you fear him/her, but because you are inspired by him/her.

    Comment by Lyssie — July 11, 2007 @ 6:28 pm | Reply

  37. Lyssie, another insightful post. Thank you.

    You’re right in that Christianity is an effective way to adjust your moral compass by. What I disagree with is that Christianity is the very basis of morality; it’s not. Good (and bad) morals have been around since there were suitably intelligent people on the Earth, and Christianity is a way of aligning yourself to what is seen as the best morals. Ergo, it’s a lifestyle. In that, I feel that Christianity, properly interpreted, is a very good template to live your life by. However, just like anything else, it can be taken out of context by extremists for their own personal benefit.

    Comment by Adam Nelson — July 11, 2007 @ 7:00 pm | Reply

  38. Adam, Lyssie, thank you…that was more of what I was trying to say. It’s hard for me to explain this without many concrete examples in this case, and that would make me share things that these people are not getting from me due to lack of respect/listening skills. Hey Lyssie? HOw ’bout a Father rather than a boss? *shrugs* that’s my word for it. And Adam, “rightly interpreted” is a definite plus in this case.

    Comment by La Mona — July 11, 2007 @ 9:47 pm | Reply

  39. Sorry “properly” not “rightly” same thing…different word. It’s getting late. I should prolly go to bed.

    Comment by La Mona — July 11, 2007 @ 9:48 pm | Reply

  40. Oh, and I missed BJ up there. The true definition of “repent” does not only include to ask forgiveness but to turn around in the other direction (change your ways). You tell me, if Hitler said “sorry” before pulling the trigger has he “repented?” And thus, does he get into heaven? It’s a thought that could go many ways. My point was, you don’t know who is really going to Heaven or not despite their deeds on Earth (didn’t have to mean those people you listed, in general). You don’t know the changes they made after the fact. Again, it’s something that could go many ways.

    And I do read. I’m a bit dyslexic at times, but most days it works ok.

    Ttfn.

    Comment by La Mona — July 11, 2007 @ 10:00 pm | Reply

  41. Do you believe in love, PG? Have you seen evidence of it? Not really — people tell you about love, but they also tell you about God, so what does that prove, right? People do kind things for each other, but is it because of love, or is it due to a self-motivated desire to appear virtuous?

    A feeling is not the same as a being. Apples and oranges, apples and oranges.

    If you only accept that for which you can obtain concrete evidence, then you are missing out on all that makes us human.

    Feelings do exist. There is quite enough real evidence for that. Not for the existence of god. Really, there can´t be any evidence as well as there can´t be any denying is existence. That´s the problem with supernatural beings.

    Your other post was quite good Lyssie. The thing is that one can use god as a moral compass. But one can do without and still be a morally good human.

    Comment by PG — July 12, 2007 @ 5:01 am | Reply

  42. Or one could replace “God” by “Buddha”, doesn’t change a thing (except that Buddha had better morals than all the OT prophets combined.)

    Comment by Skeptic — July 12, 2007 @ 6:14 am | Reply

  43. Can´t see any differrence before and after, Psyche. I just know another console order now.

    Really? Are you using HTML?

    Comment by Sisyphus — July 12, 2007 @ 10:13 am | Reply

  44. So many points to argue against, but as I’m only allowed to argue two, I’ll start with the most obvious one.

    I don’t think they hate living here. They hate the Christian values and patriotic loyalty that make this the greatest country in the world.

    You’re right on one part. I, personally, do not hate living here in America. I recognize how priveledge I am to live in one of the greatest naions in the world. However, I don’t believe Christian values are what make it great, but I don’t hate christian values either.

    This country wasn’t originaly built around Christian Values and it was still great. If you do some research, you’ll find that most (if not all) of the founding fathers were against the merging of the church and state. So saying that Christian values are what make America great is not only ignorant, but also undermines the value of the freedoms that we have.

    Comment by Perpetualy Dreaming — July 25, 2007 @ 11:58 pm | Reply

  45. Next I’ll argue the most arrogant point.

    The rout it is they hate God because God demands they stop running around doing things like beating up old people, kicking dogs and raping children. To hurt God they go become atheists

    This is a huge generalization, and an example of the double standards that are corrupting America. I am 15, and I am an Atheist. I did not turn atheist because I wanted to hurt god, I turned Atheist because I disagree with all religions, and no righteous god would allow some of the things I’ve seen.

    Secondly, Atheists don’t hate god, we just don’t belive he exists, you can’t hate what isn’t there. That’s another example of double standards, you believe that you’re correct no matter what, and that’s your right as an American, but you hate Liberals even though we’re trying to protect those right for everyone.

    In the Declaration of Independance it says “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.” This is what liberals fight for, and if that makes us hate America, then so did the founding fathers.

    Comment by Perpetualy Dreaming — July 26, 2007 @ 12:17 am | Reply


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