Blogs 4 Brownback

June 19, 2007

Compelling Analysis

Newsbusters points out the real problem with “global” warming theorists (besides the fact they believe in a globe): weather station accuracy is unquestioned by the Mainstream Moonbats.

To get an idea of the measurement environment that exists today at stations used to gather climate data, I visited the Chico State University Fram on Hegan Lane, south of the city, to do a site survey in the format done by Dr. Roger Pielke of Colorado State University. This station is part of the US Historical Climate Network of weather stations that have been used as the source for surface temperature data in many climate models and studies. There were some interesting discoveries…
Curator notes:

1. There has been encroachment by Oleander bushes onto the site in recent times, about 2 years ago, a prominent Oleander bush that was blocking the pyranometer view was removed, see before (sketch) and after photos below.
2. The curator notes that there was a complaint from a meteorologist from WeatherNews about a change in temperature data that coincided with a repainting of the CRS’s a few years ago, but cannot recall the date exactly.

Site surveyor notes:

1. There are missing louvers on the north side of the CRS containing the automated data logger and temp/dp sensor
2. There is clear evidence that both shelters have been repainted with latex paint, including brush marks and drip marks.
3. There is an asphalt road that curves around the site, from the southwest to the southeast
4. The surface at the site is mixture of gravel, soil, and debris. There is no grass.
5. There is a water filled evapo-transpiration pan within 10 feet of each CRS, its lineage seems to indicate it goes back to the establishment of the site in 1963
6. The fiberglass composite NEMA electronics enclosure containing the data logger, radio modem, and solar battery charger are placed inside the CRS within 6-8 inches of the temperature/dp sensor. The 12 volt gel cel battery is also inside the CRS. These items may introduce a heat bias from the operating electronics.

Read the whole Newsbusters article, and kiss your precious “‘global’ warming” theory goodbye!

So much for your precious, priceless, flawless scientific method, treefrogs! Stick to Scripture, it’s eternal and immutable. Science is a transient fad, as easily falsified as the alchemy and Paganism from whence it arose.

118 Comments »

  1. Hey, if I throw together a pile of random, worn-out junk, can I be a climate scientist, too?

    Comment by DPS — June 19, 2007 @ 9:17 am | Reply

  2. Nope, you’ll still be the same crackpot you are now…

    Comment by Skeptic — June 19, 2007 @ 9:38 am | Reply

  3. “Hey, if I throw together a pile of random, worn-out junk, can I be a climate scientist, too?”

    You have to get a worthless degree from a treefrog university, first. Then, you can babble away, gorging yourself at the trough of government boondoggledom in the process.

    Comment by Sisyphus — June 19, 2007 @ 9:42 am | Reply

  4. Sisyphus, this is a vital piece of reporting that deserves wider coverage. I don’t think any of us has previously realized just how easy it is to cook the books on so-called “global warming.” Mr. Watts has categorically proven that a couple of sneaky moonbats armed with nothing but a pair of pruning shears and some latex paint could subvert the entire technological construct of modern meteorology and climatology.

    Though, as a good Christian, I’m disinclined to believe anything any type of “ologist” and their “theories” tell me, I have always understood that God was the original thermometric designer and, thus, have always believed what the thermometer tells me. Now, though, I see that even if God gives us the proper tools, the insidious atheists and communists of America’s Democrat wing can still figure out ways to corrupt the output from those tools (i.e., temperature readings).

    I imagine if we were to go look at every weather station in the country, the moonbat environmentalists have conspired to jack up their temperature readings. Whether through judicious prunings of oleander bushes, the application of new-fangled latex paint, or the secretive transfer of temperature sensors to the middle of blast-furnace parking lots, the feckless tree-huggers (probably with assistance from the fifth columnists at NOAA) no doubt have done their best to ensure that average temperature readings across the country are on the rise.

    Thank you, once again, for showing us that science is just another tool for the forces of Satan.

    Comment by Everett Volk — June 19, 2007 @ 10:23 am | Reply

  5. “You have to get a worthless degree from a treefrog university, first. Then, you can babble away, gorging yourself at the trough of government boondoggledom in the process.”
    Or you could move to Hollywood and become a vacuous “celebrity” so that you can lecture the rest of us about our “carbon footprint” while you travel between your sprawling mansions via chauffered limousines and private jets.
    I saw a statistic that Hollywood celebrities use the equivalent of 100 acres of old-growth forest every day to sustain their hedonistic lifestyles. Typical liberal hypocrisy in action.

    Comment by Donatello — June 19, 2007 @ 10:26 am | Reply

  6. “Thank you, once again, for showing us that science is just another tool for the forces of Satan.”

    You’re welcome.

    “Or you could move to Hollywood and become a vacuous “celebrity” so that you can lecture the rest of us about our “carbon footprint” while you travel between your sprawling mansions via chauffered limousines and private jets.”

    Good point.

    “I saw a statistic that Hollywood celebrities use the equivalent of 100 acres of old-growth forest every day to sustain their hedonistic lifestyles. Typical liberal hypocrisy in action.”

    I didn’t realize that. It figures, though.

    Comment by Sisyphus — June 19, 2007 @ 10:52 am | Reply

  7. If it has to do with the Global Warming agenda there is always a LIEberal bias involved. The lies those leftiloons come up with to try and take the attention off of their deviant lifestyles get wilder and wilder.

    I have forwarded this factual article to every newspaper within 100 miles of my home.

    Praying for your continued safety.

    Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett

    Comment by baptistsforbrown2008 — June 19, 2007 @ 11:30 am | Reply

  8. The thing I find distressing about this article is someone even bothered to go do research on how the LIEberails cooked the books to get Global Warming. It should be obvious to anyone that a half a brain that there can be no such thing. The temperature is going up because I have a barbeque. Ho Ho. Maybe if we all left our refrigerator doors open it will cool the plant down?

    But, what do you expect from people who think the earth revolves around the sun?

    Comment by BJ Tabor — June 19, 2007 @ 11:53 am | Reply

  9. “Maybe if we all left our refrigerator doors open it will cool the planet down?”

    This last comment shows you haven’t the slightest idea of how thermodynamics works.

    I bet you’re one of those people who quotes the Second Law Of Thermodynamics against evolution too!

    Comment by Skeptic — June 19, 2007 @ 12:13 pm | Reply

  10. ‘“Maybe if we all left our refrigerator doors open it will cool the planet down?”

    This last comment shows you haven’t the slightest idea of how thermodynamics works.

    I bet you’re one of those people who quotes the Second Law Of Thermodynamics against evolution too!’

    Typical liberal: any time anyone comes up with an idea that could actually be useful, they just have to shoot it down, without putting forward any ideas of their own. That’s why everyone hates liberals.

    Comment by DPS — June 19, 2007 @ 12:17 pm | Reply

  11. No they don’t.

    Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the entropy in a closed system must increase. A fridge makes its inside cold, and its outside warmer (resistance in wires, friction, fuel for electricity, etc). Thus, this ‘good idea’ is a really bad one.

    Here’s an idea

    – switch away from petrol-driven cars, and use electric ones instead

    -or use wind and solar power stations, as they don’t involve the release of CO2.

    Comment by interpreted — June 19, 2007 @ 12:22 pm | Reply

  12. “Second Law of Thermodynamics states that the entropy in a closed system must increase. A fridge makes its inside cold, and its outside warmer (resistance in wires, friction, fuel for electricity, etc). Thus, this ‘good idea’ is a really bad one.”

    Pay attention, kids. This is your brain on drugs.

    Comment by DPS — June 19, 2007 @ 12:28 pm | Reply

  13. The 2nd lie of thermodynamics doesn’t apply to refrigerators, since they (like all other modern appliances) are only allowed to work because G-d wills it.

    Comment by SeekHim — June 19, 2007 @ 12:33 pm | Reply

  14. “UPDATE: Read this analysis of the Second Law of Thermodynamics- and prepare to have your socks blown off, Darwinists.”

    This comes right from Sisy’s blog: “Another Excellent Science Read”

    Oh, the irony!

    Comment by Satan — June 19, 2007 @ 12:36 pm | Reply

  15. Muhahaha!

    Comment by Satan — June 19, 2007 @ 12:36 pm | Reply

  16. Muhahahahahahahaha!

    Comment by Satan — June 19, 2007 @ 12:36 pm | Reply

  17. Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Comment by Satan — June 19, 2007 @ 12:37 pm | Reply

  18. wow… I finally found the end of the Internet. I really htought this was a parody site but you ppl are serious!!! Scary shit. I really hop I never meet any of you in a dark alley…

    Comment by holycrap — June 19, 2007 @ 1:20 pm | Reply

  19. “I bet you’re one of those people who quotes the Second Law Of Thermodynamics against evolution too!”

    The only law I quote is Jesus.

    Comment by BJ Tabor — June 19, 2007 @ 1:42 pm | Reply

  20. And hey, those parking lots must really heat up a lot since they apparently are the cause of melting glacial ice and snowmelt in the Alps. What a bunch of loons.

    Comment by holycrap — June 19, 2007 @ 1:43 pm | Reply

  21. Everybody knows that if the cement patio gets hot, the grass is cooler. God planned it that way. Sure, New York City may be hot with all that cement but the rest of the state gets cooler as a result.

    Comment by carsick — June 19, 2007 @ 3:04 pm | Reply

  22. It is hot here today.

    Comment by dadaclu — June 19, 2007 @ 3:28 pm | Reply

  23. Not as hot as it is over here…

    Muhahaha!

    Comment by Satan — June 19, 2007 @ 5:47 pm | Reply

  24. If you guys are serious, I will be forced to subject myself to wavefunction collapse to escape the human race😉.

    But I bet you don’t believe in wave-particle duality, quantum mechanics, or relativity either. Or for that matter chemistry.

    Comment by Linus — June 19, 2007 @ 11:09 pm | Reply

  25. OK, who let the nerd out of his locker?

    Comment by DPS — June 19, 2007 @ 11:47 pm | Reply

  26. Er, perhaps he used his 1337-h4x0r geek skills to build some sort of laser-cutting knife, and burnt his way out? Oh, and I resent the implication that I am on drugs.

    Comment by interpreted — June 20, 2007 @ 5:20 am | Reply

  27. “But I bet you don’t believe in wave-particle duality, quantum mechanics, or relativity either. Or for that matter chemistry.”

    I don’t even know what most of that nonsense means.

    “Er, perhaps he used his 1337-h4×0r geek skills to build some sort of laser-cutting knife, and burnt his way out? Oh, and I resent the implication that I am on drugs.”

    Hey, you said it, not us.

    Comment by Sisyphus — June 20, 2007 @ 5:25 am | Reply

  28. “But I bet you don’t believe in wave-particle duality, quantum mechanics, or relativity either. Or for that matter chemistry.”

    “I don’t even know what most of that nonsense means.”

    Learn, read, open the mind… only then can one be free from the tyranny that is ignorance. Seek for truth Sisyphus, do not let ancient books tell you how… seek for yourself and learn all you can… you know the horror of closed minds, I have seen such horrors… you have enlightenment on this forum… use it for good, you can. Not I, for I am lost…

    Comment by Colonel Walter E. Kurtz — June 20, 2007 @ 5:37 am | Reply

  29. Colonel Kurtz,
    Your methods are unsound.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 7:26 am | Reply

  30. ‘Pay attention, kids. This is your brain on drugs’

    DPS said it, Sisyphus.

    I reiterate the point that leaving your refrigerator open and on will, on a net basis, increase the global temperature.

    Comment by interpreted — June 20, 2007 @ 7:56 am | Reply

  31. interpreted
    In scientific terms what you are offering is just a theory and we all know that theories are just like opinions…everybody’s got one.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 8:07 am | Reply

  32. ‘Theory: A logical structure that enables one to deduce the possible results of every experiment that falls within its purview.’

    Not everyone has a theory. Some have hypotheses, and some are just wrong.

    OK, you could demonstrate that this was right – this is what you would need:

    – A room that was the equivalent of a very large thermos flask (vacuum to stop conduction/convection of heat, mirrored walls to stop radiation of it)

    – A fridge, with its own power source – preferably a fossil fuel one, to make the demo more accurate

    When you turn the fridge on, the room warms up.

    Comment by interpreted — June 20, 2007 @ 8:51 am | Reply

  33. My life is everything that feeds my thirst… it causes sin. My wants are all I care. No shame or guilt… nothing there. Look deep into my soul. I sell deceit without a trace. Fear not, what I can do, unless, you want it done to you… as I watch your exposed back, I will promise not to kill, I will tell you what you want to hear and not mean anything… then I’ll treat you like a dog as I shoot my bullets in… you pretend you didn’t know that I am The Scorpion. For God and Country, lest us not forget suspicion…

    Myself? I’m centered in!! There’s nothing else… there’s never been. And my dream to be left alone with the sadness, the madness, on my own. Look deep into my soul… it’s black as coal, like a bullet hole. Fear not, no defense. do what I please! My lies, to reach the shore I aggrandize… and nothing more. my hopes to steal away all that you love, I’ll soon betray. Look deep into my past. They pay and hope to forget, these people of power, my government.

    I will not take the lies… my life is worth so much more than that! I owe that to my son, and to me! Will God see this pain and forgive? I hope, my God, I hope! The pain I feel is unsurpassed. I’m not a lowly scorpion… I’m so much worse… I’m the fall of man.

    Comment by Colonel Walter E. Kurtz — June 20, 2007 @ 9:07 am | Reply

  34. “When you turn the fridge on, the room warms up.”

    What kind of mixed up, upside down world do you live in? In the world the rest of us live in fridges cool things. Got that, cool things.

    Comment by BJ Tabor — June 20, 2007 @ 9:11 am | Reply

  35. “When you turn the fridge on, the room warms up.”

    I have no idea why anyone would think you’re on drugs, interpreted.

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 9:13 am | Reply

  36. interpreted
    God’s miracles and plan are not dependent upon the material world so deducing the possible in the material world just shows how limited and powerless we are in comparison to God’s Will and Knowledge.
    Plus, when you leave the room that warms up, the next room is cooler.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 9:15 am | Reply

  37. “In the world the rest of us live in fridges cool things. Got that, cool things.”

    Providing the objects are contained *within* the fridge. The room that the fridge exists in, is not contained within the fridge.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 20, 2007 @ 9:17 am | Reply

  38. ‘God’s miracles and plan are not dependent upon the material world so deducing the possible in the material world just shows how limited and powerless we are in comparison to God’s Will and Knowledge.’

    We should act as if we can deduce the possible in the material world, or we are putting God to the test, by ignoring the laws that he set up.

    Comment by interpreted — June 20, 2007 @ 9:22 am | Reply

  39. “Providing the objects are contained *within* the fridge. The room that the fridge exists in, is not contained within the fridge.”

    Even if this were true, we could just put the fridges outside. Problem solved.

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 9:34 am | Reply

  40. But it still wouldn’t make up for the fact that to make the fridge work, a large amount of electricity is needed – that would be derived from the burning of fuel, etc, and also from the resistance in the wires, and the friction in the fan.

    Comment by interpreted — June 20, 2007 @ 9:37 am | Reply

  41. Look, a fridge operates by removing heat from the interior, and pumping it into the surrounding room. It cannot destroy the energy that the heat is a result of, that’s the Law of the Conservation of Energy. If you believe that the Universe doesn’t have laws, and that everything is just done arbitrarily by God, then you’re in sad shape. I could go into all sorts of reasons why this is fallacious.

    Comment by Linus — June 20, 2007 @ 9:48 am | Reply

  42. Wiki: don’t feed the trolls.

    Comment by Linus — June 20, 2007 @ 9:49 am | Reply

  43. And a fridge does not generate cold, it simply moves heat somewhere else, and in doing so, produces heat of its own that was previously another type of energy. It’s elementary science, guys.

    Comment by Linus — June 20, 2007 @ 9:51 am | Reply

  44. Linus, it’s their site – I’m the troll.

    Comment by interpreted — June 20, 2007 @ 9:52 am | Reply

  45. “don’t feed the trolls.”

    Exactly. Brownback supporters and good Americans, we need to make an effort to ignore these God-hating, pants-wetting dorks.

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 9:55 am | Reply

  46. “Linus, it’s their site – I’m the troll.”

    Yes. If you want trolls to ignore, you will have to get your own blog.

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 9:56 am | Reply

  47. Linus,
    “If you believe that the Universe doesn’t have laws, and that everything is just done arbitrarily by God…”

    Ha ha ha. You’re joking right? God’s Law is the only law and if you think He is arbitrary then you are just showing your ignorance. As a human that is excusable but only if you move beyond belief and have Faith. Or else you will be condemned to Hell and never meet the Maker. And yes, he is also the Maker of Frigidaires and GE Appliances. I think Satan makes the Black and Decker products though.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 10:12 am | Reply

  48. carsick: “God’s Law is the only law…”

    Which “god”?? There are so many, always have, probably always will, doesn’t mean any of them have ever, or will ever, exist. There are a billion Muslims worldwide that will tell you that THEIR “god” is the only law to live by, are they right? You can’t both be right. Add in all the other religions and you can see what a mess this is.

    It’s an age old belief that whatever “God” you happen to believe in is the “one true god” and so his laws are to be obeyed. Can’t be true, otherwise why the need for multiple religions/gods.

    It’s also beyond arrogance to believe that *you* know this based purely on *your* belief. As the old saying goes: Every man thinks *his* wife is the prettiest.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 20, 2007 @ 10:32 am | Reply

  49. Tyler Durden,
    You already know you are going to Hell right?
    I don’t just believe in God. I have placed my Faith in God. Sam Brownback’s God, not Mitt Romney’s.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 10:39 am | Reply

  50. carsick: “You already know you are going to Hell right?”

    Wrong. How could I possibly go to a place that I don’t believe to exist?

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 20, 2007 @ 10:48 am | Reply

  51. Tyler Durden,
    There is only ONE God. I agree, it is arrogant to think you could pick and choose. Mitt Romney thought he could and look where it got him? He doesn’t have a principle he won’t change given the opportunity. And you? You’re going to Hell.
    Given those outcomes I’m thankful I have Faith in the ONLY God with a capital “G”.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 10:51 am | Reply

  52. Ha ha ha.
    You probably don’t believe in war either but you can still die in one.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 10:53 am | Reply

  53. “Wrong. How could I possibly go to a place that I don’t believe to exist?”

    I didn’t believe that the new Long John Silver’s out on the state route existed, but then we drove out there to take a look, and it’s really there, and we ate there, and it was pretty good.

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 10:54 am | Reply

  54. carsick: “And you? You’re going to Hell.”

    Yawn.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 20, 2007 @ 10:58 am | Reply

  55. Slothfulness is a sin and ignorance of the Law is not a defense.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 11:02 am | Reply

  56. But *your* laws don’t apply to *me*. Why would they? Why do you feel the need to apply your beliefs to somebody else? A sure sign of arrogance – Don’t you read your Holy Bible? Psalm 31:18 or Jeremiah 48:29

    I can think for myself, and choose to by free will. Your “god” does not apply, nor interest, me. I can barely contain a yawn answering your insignificant post. Come on back when you have something insightful and original to say… leave the fire and brimstone to the insidious “preachers” on TV.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 20, 2007 @ 11:14 am | Reply

  57. Ha ha ha. God gave you free will and that’s why Faith is rewarded. You probably buy Black and Decker products too.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 11:23 am | Reply

  58. “I can barely contain a yawn answering your insignificant post. Come on back when you have something insightful and original to say…”

    A-ha! So you DO come here for insightful and original commentary! I knew it! We’ll win you over yet, Tyler Durden!

    For now, please tell us what posts you have considered insightful and original.

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 11:27 am | Reply

  59. DPS, why would you even think I’m here for “insightful and original commentary”? You make an assumption that is simply not there. Read my post again. I asked carsick to come back when *he* had something to say worth listening to… I’m still waiting… that does not mean anything here by you or anyone else has been insightful or original, simply wishful thinking on your part to read my post in that way. (are you that impatient to “win me over” you’ll take any feeble opening??)

    I will say, anything by Colonel Walter E. Kurtz, is probably the *weirdest* thing I’ve read here… does that count??

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 20, 2007 @ 11:44 am | Reply

  60. “You make an assumption that is simply not there. Read my post again. I asked carsick to come back when *he* had something to say worth listening to… I’m still waiting… that does not mean anything here by you or anyone else has been insightful or original, simply wishful thinking on your part to read my post in that way.”

    If you don’t find things “worth listening to” here, what are you looking for? Why do you come here?

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 11:55 am | Reply

  61. Curiosity.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 20, 2007 @ 12:09 pm | Reply

  62. @44:

    I was referring to your debate with DPS.

    Comment by Linus — June 20, 2007 @ 12:25 pm | Reply

  63. Tyler,
    Idle hands are the Devil’s tools.
    Also, as former Vice President Dan Quayle once said: “What a waste it is to lose one’s mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.”

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 12:26 pm | Reply

  64. “Curiosity.”

    So then it *is* worth listening to? Surely to be curious about something is to think that it is worth listening to? Otherwise, you wouldn’t listen. Right?

    So what exactly are you curious about? Are you curious about the things that people say here?

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 12:33 pm | Reply

  65. “What a waste it is to lose one’s mind. Or not to have a mind is being very wasteful. How true that is.”

    Speaking from experience, Carsick?

    Comment by Skeptic — June 20, 2007 @ 12:35 pm | Reply

  66. Linus writes @ 62

    “I was referring to your debate with DPS.”

    Lord, could we at least get some trolls here who are smart enough to communicate with each other?

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 12:37 pm | Reply

  67. Skeptic
    Why do those on the far left always revert to personal attacks when they are out of arguments? It’s sad really.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 12:41 pm | Reply

  68. Amen, carsick. Would it be so hard for them simply to be civil?

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 12:49 pm | Reply

  69. Yes, what did we do to this liberals to earn this much hate from them? Then again how do you understand the thinking of someone who wants to sell America out to the terrorists?

    Comment by BJ Tabor — June 20, 2007 @ 1:13 pm | Reply

  70. “Typical liberal: any time anyone comes up with an idea that could actually be useful, they just have to shoot it down, without putting forward any ideas of their own. That’s why everyone hates liberals.”

    “OK, who let the nerd out of his locker?”

    “we need to make an effort to ignore these God-hating, pants-wetting dorks.”

    “Please, Lord, smite these heathens and sodomites and welfare queens and organic farmers and wizards. Smite them, and smite them again, and keep on smiting them, for as long as it takes. There are some commenters on this blog who really, really need a good, hard smiting, but since you know who they are and they know who they are, I won’t name them.”

    “This one sentence explains everything that is wrong with Skeptic.”
    All Dps’s

    “…first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye”
    Jesus

    Comment by Skeptic — June 20, 2007 @ 1:22 pm | Reply

  71. @ Skeptic:

    I do not have anything in my eye, and I don’t have any brothers. And I don’t see how Jesus’ pronouncements on ophthalmological matters are germane to the present discussion, which is about what is wrong with liberals.

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 1:26 pm | Reply

  72. Skeptic
    Pointing out the failings and peculiarities of liberals and unbelievers isn’t personal. You may see it that way but only because you identify yourself as a liberal and unbeliever. You are making it personal once again.

    Comment by carsick — June 20, 2007 @ 1:33 pm | Reply

  73. Good point Carsick. We are only discussing the sin, not the sinner.

    Try to see beyond your hate for His sake Skeptic.

    Comment by BJ Tabor — June 20, 2007 @ 4:10 pm | Reply

  74. “Try to see beyond your hate for His sake Skeptic.”

    You guys are the ones plotting a nuclear apocalypse and other worldwide genocides, not me!

    Comment by Skeptic — June 20, 2007 @ 5:03 pm | Reply

  75. Dear Skeptic,

    I say this with all of the Christ-like compassion and love for you that I can muster up under the current circumstances: You are quite likely one of the most disagreeable and uniformed people I have ever had the pleasure of rebuking. A scripture that comes to mind when dealing with persons such as yourself who seek to spread scientific lies and overthrow the work of the Godly. ISAIAH 54:17 “But no weapon that is formed against you shall prosper, and every tongue that shall rise against you in judgment you shall show to be in the wrong. This [peace, righteousness, security, triumph over opposition] is the heritage of the servants of the Lord [those in whom the ideal Servant of the Lord is reproduced]; this is the righteousness or the vindication which they obtain from Me [this is that which I impart to them as their justification], says the Lord.”

    Jesus Christ, the only scientist we need learn from, promises to protect decent people from lying, LIEberals and the lies they lie. We know the truth about the earth because the Bible tells us so. Sam Brownback also knows the truth because the Father told him so. God does not lie, Skeptic. Only repugnant slithering snakes of men lie. Do you really want to be a snake?

    Get right with Jesus. Cast aside all of your scientific hooey-phooey before it’s too late. The Father is coming to your door. Won’t you answer it?

    Comment by Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett — June 20, 2007 @ 5:23 pm | Reply

  76. I would *not* want to be Skeptic right now. Not with Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett on patrol.

    Comment by DPS — June 20, 2007 @ 6:07 pm | Reply

  77. Given at a Science, Technology, and Space Hearing on Wednesday, February 18, 2004

    The Testimony of The Honorable Sam Brownback (Senator, Kansas)
    http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1052&wit_id=1867

    “On January 14 President Bush gave one of the most important speeches a President can give. He set our nation once again on a course to the future. This future will see American men and women return to the moon for extended periods and journey to the planet Mars.

    This initiative is a big boost to NASA and its dedicated men and women to be sure. But it is much more than that. It is for our next generation of Americans. President Bush wants a new generation of Americans to have an unlimited future – a future in which space exploration will play a key role. My generation was inspired by Americans walking on the moon and flying in space. We were inspired to study science and engineering. And we put those talents to great use in building America’s economy to the envy of the world. Our new generation of young Americans watches countless movies and television shows featuring humans working and living on other worlds. Now President Bush has challenged them to make these visions real. And they will!

    President Bush’s space initiative will involve new NASA programs. But it will be much more than just Government work. It will ignite our vast private sector’s talent and resources to lead the way in space – generating great new wealth and capability. In a few months this private sector will fly ordinary Americans in space for the first time. In a few months wholly privately-financed rockets will blast new low-cost satellites into orbit. These satellites will contribute a new dimension to our pressing national security problems. We will hear some of these ideas today.

    America is not alone in understanding the promise of space exploration. Even now the first in a series of European missions to the moon is underway. More will soon follow from India, Japan and China. These nations have all announced their intent to place humans on other worlds beginning with the moon. Some of these nations are allies. But they are all our economic competitors. They know that their space exploration will stimulate their new generations to develop technical and ultimately economically powerful new capabilities.

    It has been almost 30 years since Americans last walked on another world. Much has changed. New technologies abound. New ideas have emerged. Some have criticized the exploration effort as unaffordable and extravagant. This is manifestly untrue. Most of the Government resources needed for human exploration of the moon and Mars will come from re-orienting our priorities within NASA. More significantly though, other resources will come from the American entrepreneurs who will reap the rewards of their space investments.

    I am proud to chair the Senate Subcommittee on Science, Technology and Space. I’m proud to be here today in Houston – where America’s past journeys to other worlds were led and where our future journeys will begin. Your work will continue to inspire our new generations. It is America’s destiny to lead – to lead the world in science, technology and space, to lead in economic development and to lead humanity to other worlds.”

    To whom it may concern:

    With all due respect to the kind words and valued opinion of Mrs. T.D. Gaines-Crockett, it is our duty as Americans to study, and learn all we can learn about this wonderful Universe the Lord has given us. As my most honorable colleague Sen. Brownback stated in his above speech: “My generation was inspired by Americans walking on the moon and flying in space. We were inspired to study science and engineering.”

    As much as I value and need my faith day to day, I can, when needed, use the expert opinion and assistance of our great scientists to accomplish tasks needed to move this great country forward. Casting aside science can only be of great harm to this country, its people and its future.

    With respect,
    Ted Stevens (R-Alaska)

    Comment by Ted Stevens, Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation — June 21, 2007 @ 3:52 am | Reply

  78. carsick, do you *really* want to trade quotes using Dan Quayle as an example?

    “We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe.” Dan Quayle.

    “I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy – but that could change.”
    Dan Quayle.

    “One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is ‘to be prepared'” Dan Quayle.

    “My fellow astronauts… (beginning a speech at an Apollo 11 anniversary celebration.)” Dan Quayle.

    Maybe we should just leave it up to Dan’s father to describe him in the best light:
    “Dan doesn’t have the greatest smarts in the world. His main interests in school were broads and booze.”
    J. Danforth Quayle’s Father, 08/23/1988

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 4:30 am | Reply

  79. DPS: “So then it *is* worth listening to? Surely to be curious about something is to think that it is worth listening to? Otherwise, you wouldn’t listen. Right?
    So what exactly are you curious about? Are you curious about the things that people say here?”

    DPS, why do you insist on trying to know my mind and what I seem to think? You assume way too much. I may be curious about this forum, but that does *not* mean that anything you say here “is worth listening to”. That is your assumption. And it is a false one.

    I have my reasons for being curious… and they shall be mine own.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 4:59 am | Reply

  80. @Mrs. Gaines

    I support equal rights and opportunities (I “allow” them to work outside the house) for women, unlike Sisyphus, who wants to lock them up and cover them like only Muslims do.
    My posts were parodies of several incredibly misogynous statements that Sisyphus made.

    Am I disagreeable?
    Quite possible, I just can’t bear myself to feel sympathy for advocates of a nuclear holocaust.

    I will not “denounce” the logic and reason of science, as surely as I won’t denounce that 1+1=2.
    If the Bible is infallible then it will tell you that the Earth is a sphere, because that is the truth.

    Jesus did not say anything about this, because it was not a topic in those days, but I respect him to much to believe he would be ignorant and stupid enough to dismiss empirical evidence.

    As Sam Brownback himself said: “My generation was inspired by Americans walking on the moon and flying in space. We were inspired to study science and engineering.”

    Comment by Skeptic — June 21, 2007 @ 8:50 am | Reply

  81. “I support equal rights and opportunities (I “allow” them to work outside the house) for women, unlike Sisyphus, who wants to lock them up and cover them like only Muslims do.”

    This is a lie, and a libelous one at that. I do not think women should be forced to cover their faces and persons in burqas. To my way of thinking, strapping their chests down and covering their hair should be quite sufficient. This behavior was common in the time of the Virgin Mary; sadly, looser morals have taken sway since then.

    Comment by Sisyphus — June 21, 2007 @ 9:07 am | Reply

  82. “As Sam Brownback himself said: “My generation was inspired by Americans walking on the moon and flying in space. We were inspired to study science and engineering.”

    He has to say things like that, to appeal to moderates, RINOs, and other dingbats. True believers know enough to read between the lines and learn his true meaning.

    Comment by Sisyphus — June 21, 2007 @ 9:08 am | Reply

  83. Skeptic: As Sam Brownback himself said: “My generation was inspired by Americans walking on the moon and flying in space. We were inspired to study science and engineering.”

    What?!?!? Sam Brownback believes man walked on the moon? And flew in space? And was inspired to study science? Who is this Sam Brownback you speak of Skeptic? Surely not the same Sam Brownback that Sisyphus is promoting for President?? Hmmm, a contradiction is upon us… who to believe?

    Sisyphus, explain this to the masses… Brownback is lying right? To congress, yes? And to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation, yes? And to the American public, yes?

    Surely this man cannot be trusted. If he is such a proficient liar now, what will he do when elected President, the most powerful post in the free world?? We need answers Sisyphus, nay, we deserve answers! This Brownback guy is a science geek. How dare you waste your time when all the while he’s in Washington D.C. promoting science and engineering!!! How dare he!

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 9:15 am | Reply

  84. “Brownback is lying right?”

    Since when is lying to a moonbat a problem? It is not like they even know what the truth is.

    Comment by BJ Tabor — June 21, 2007 @ 9:34 am | Reply

  85. BJ Tabor: “Since when is lying to a moonbat a problem? It is not like they even know what the truth is.”

    Well, he’s either lying to congress, senate and the American public or to Sisyphus… which one is your definition of a “moonbat” BJ?

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 9:41 am | Reply

  86. Skeptic,
    I was inspired by the movies Star Wars and The Passion. Doesn’t necessarily mean that I thought Star Wars was true though.

    Tyler,
    Of course I meant to quote our former Vice President. What’s your point?

    Comment by Carsick — June 21, 2007 @ 9:57 am | Reply

  87. Brownback Examines Threat of Near Earth Objects
    Wednesday, April 7, 2004

    http://brownback.senate.gov/pressapp/record.cfm?id=220288

    WASHINGTON – U.S. Senator Sam Brownback today made the following statement as he chaired a hearing on the threat from space posed by Near Earth Objects, or asteroids.

    “Most people have watched Hollywood movies about asteroids, or more correctly ‘Near-Earth Objects’—NEOs for short—striking the earth. Yet few know what’s real and what’s not. Fewer still know what your government is doing about this threat, or not doing for that matter.

    Asteroid 2004FH, approximately 100 feet wide, passed within about 25,000 miles of the Earth on March 18, 2004. This is equivalent to riding in an airliner and seeing a small plane suddenly pass a few hundred feet off the wing – a pretty scary occurrence! Had this asteroid hit the earth – as a somewhat bigger one did in 1908 – it would have released over a megaton of energy. This is the explosive yield of a large nuclear weapon. Yet we had only a few days warning of Asteroid 2004FH. Other, similar objects just missed us in the past few years and we didn’t even see them until they were past.

    Scientists tell us that a big asteroid—ten miles in diameter—destroyed the dinosaurs 65 million years ago. Asteroids are the small bits left over from the formation of the solar system billions of years ago. If we look up at the moon we can see the results of billions of years of bombardment in its shattered face. The earth suffered similar hits but most have healed due to Earth’s weather and geological processes. Small asteroids hit the earth every year; about thirty struck the upper atmosphere last year. They each release as much energy as a small atomic bomb. Fortunately the atmosphere protects us from these little asteroids. But ones such the March 18th object could devastate a large city. Experts tell us that we run about the same risk of dying in an airline crash as we do dying from an asteroid strike. This is serious and warrants serious attention by our government.

    The President’s new space exploration vision mandates that we focus our attention on the opportunities inherent in moving human presence into the solar system. But it also raises the question as to potential threats out there. Panels of experts have met over the past few years. All tell us that the threat of NEO impact is real. At the smallest scale those that strike us several times a month could be confused in a crisis as a nuclear attack. Asteroids the size of the one a few weeks ago hit earth several times a century. We could and should have the ability to detect these objects before they hit and do something about it.

    Today we are meeting to consider whether Congress should pass legislation to do something about this threat from space. We will hear from program managers within NASA and the National Science Foundation on what is being done now and what is planned. We will hear from the experts in our scientific community on what they recommend we do to find the threatening objects before they hit. We will hear from space development experts on how we could build spacecraft quickly and cheaply to meet threatening objects deep in space to find out about them and divert them as necessary. Finally we will hear from former and current astronauts how these objects might fit into the President’s exciting new space exploration vision – both as targets for scientific exploration and commercial use, as well as how to divert the threatening ones.”

    Sisyphus: “He has to say things like that, to appeal to moderates, RINOs, and other dingbats.”
    You mean he’s lying? How can you trust a man who lies so easily??

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 10:12 am | Reply

  88. carsick: “Tyler, Of course I meant to quote our former Vice President. What’s your point?”

    Well, for one, your former Vice President, J. Danforth Quayle, thought America was part of Europe:
    “We have a firm commitment to NATO, we are a *part* of NATO. We have a firm commitment to Europe. We are a *part* of Europe.”

    carsick, do *you* think America is part of Europe? It’s not a trick question, so take your time when answering…

    “I believe we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy – but that could change.” If something is “irreversible”, it cannot change, so his quote makes no sense whatsoever.

    “One word sums up probably the responsibility of any vice president, and that one word is ‘to be prepared’” The phrase ‘to be prepared’ is actually three words, not one, so, again, his quote makes no sense, plus, he cannot count. (I can see a pattern here, can you?)

    “My fellow astronauts… (beginning a speech at an Apollo 11 anniversary celebration.)” Your former Vice President, J. Danforth Quayle, was NEVER an astronaut. Ah shucks, maybe he just didn’t know what the word “fellow” meant? Or what the word “astronaut” meant? Or what the word “My” meant?

    So, my point: if you are going to try to use quotations to make your point, try mining them from somebody who knew what they were actually talking about…

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 10:26 am | Reply

  89. Tyler Durden @ 79:

    ‘I may be curious about this forum, but that does *not* mean that anything you say here “is worth listening to”.’

    So you’re curious about the forum, but not curious about anything that anyone says on the forum? What are you curious about, then? The picture of the Senator? The “Submit Comment” button?

    ‘DPS, why do you insist on trying to know my mind and what I seem to think?’

    Mainly, I was wondering why you told carsick to go away the other day, when it’s obvious that what you really want is for carsick and others like him to keep commenting here so that you can complain about them. And you want to complain about them because you hate their faith. And you hate their faith because you can feel that faith swelling in yourself, and you don’t want it there. But there is nothing you can do, Tyler Durden. The Lord is ravishing your heart.🙂

    Comment by DPS — June 21, 2007 @ 10:36 am | Reply

  90. Tyler,
    Like you’ve never misspoke or made a typo. Jeesh, our almost Great president (Sam Brownback will be better!),President Bush, just thanked a band from New Orleans for performing at the White House then asked them to stick around and clean up afterward.

    THE PRESIDENT: “Proud you’re here. Thanks for coming. You all enjoy yourself. Make sure you pick up all the trash after it’s over.”

    Can’t a man (only God is perfect!) make a gaffe or crack a joke without you PCers jumping all over his case?

    Comment by Carsick — June 21, 2007 @ 10:43 am | Reply

  91. Tyler,
    And before you start in with your PC talk, I can assure you that the President was not making some psychological (another false science!) slip equating Afro-American jazz musicians from New Orleans with typically low skilled manual laborers like municipal sanitation workers. He was just being friendly.
    You PCers don’t have a sense of humor and in some cases a sense of jovial and appropriate repertoire with new acquaintances.

    Comment by Carsick — June 21, 2007 @ 10:52 am | Reply

  92. DPS: “What are you curious about, then? The picture of the Senator? The “Submit Comment” button?”
    Mostly the font. Oh, and the scroll bars. Not a big fan of the “Submit Comment” button to be honest, could’ve designed that one better myself🙂

    “…why you told carsick to go away the other day” – I never said that, simply implied that he should think before he types!”

    “…you hate their faith” – No I don’t. Again, DPS, I hate to repeat myself, but in this case I will: why do you insist on trying to know my mind and what I seem to think? You assume way too much. You’re more than welcome to your faith, it’s just not for me!

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 10:53 am | Reply

  93. Tyler,
    In the end, God will get you. Or Satan will. Have you already given in?

    Comment by Carsick — June 21, 2007 @ 10:57 am | Reply

  94. Tyler,
    Also, we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy. And so is Iraq!

    Comment by Carsick — June 21, 2007 @ 11:06 am | Reply

  95. carsick: “only God is perfect”

    And this “perfect god” you speak of, he was designed by another perfect “god”, or just appeared one day, out of the blue, from nothing?

    “I also gave them over to statutes that were not good and laws they could not live by; I let them become defiled through their gifts — the sacrifice of every firstborn — that I might fill them with horror so they would know that I am the LORD.” Ezekiel 20:25-26

    “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.” Peter 2:18

    “When the Lord your God brings you into the land you are entering to possess and drives out before you many nations… then you must destroy them totally. Make no treaty with them, and show them no mercy.” Deuteronomy 7:1-2

    Wow. This “perfect god” of yours sure does like to kill. As for the slavery… carsick, is this your idea of “perfect”?? Do you, carsick, condone slavery??

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 11:14 am | Reply

  96. “Also, we are on an irreversible trend toward more freedom and democracy. And so is Iraq!”

    It’s true. Christianity has never been stronger in either country than it is today.

    Comment by Sisyphus — June 21, 2007 @ 11:14 am | Reply

  97. “Wow. This “perfect god” of yours sure does like to kill. As for the slavery… carsick, is this your idea of “perfect”?? Do you, carsick, condone slavery??”

    Slavery in the service of God is the finest condition known to man. Even those apostate heretics, the Muslims, recognize this; I am told that to be called a “slave of God” is a very high compliment amongst them, and that the word “Islam” means simply “submission.”

    As for killing, Jesus died for our sins. Others kill us for them. This is the way of things; to change it is to commit treason against Heaven. Pacifists are on par with Darwinists and Heliocentrists.

    Comment by Sisyphus — June 21, 2007 @ 11:19 am | Reply

  98. Tyler,
    God had to drag man kicking and screaming to the path of Free Will. That is our fault.

    Comment by Carsick — June 21, 2007 @ 11:20 am | Reply

  99. “…to be called a “slave of God” is a very high compliment amongst them, and that the word “Islam” means simply “submission.””

    Ah, I see. My knowledge of Islam is practically zero, thanks for the info; so you’re a theology student/teacher, Sisyphus?

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 11:30 am | Reply

  100. Tyler Durden @ 92

    ‘“…why you told carsick to go away the other day” – I never said that, simply implied that he should think before he types!’

    Here’s what you said to carsick:

    “I can barely contain a yawn answering your insignificant post. Come on back when you have something insightful and original to say…”

    But you don’t want him to say anything you would consider insightful and original. You want him to keep defending Christianity and America so you can complain about him. That’s why I think you should apologize to carsick. You like it when carsick comments, and you should be nice to him so that he does more of it.

    Comment by DPS — June 21, 2007 @ 11:50 am | Reply

  101. DPS
    I feel any apology will just be a satanic trick to manipulate me at this point. I sincerely doubt that he is not an agent of the Darkness but he forgets that, as my son used to sing, “My God is an awesome God-ee-o!” (In his toddlerish misunderstanding my son was trying to sing the Glorious song, “My God is an Awesome God, He Reigns.”)

    Comment by Carsick — June 21, 2007 @ 11:58 am | Reply

  102. DPS, here’s my quote to carsick: “I can barely contain a yawn answering your insignificant post. Come on back when you have something insightful and original to say…”

    And you then say: “…why you told carsick to go away the other day” – Kindly show me where I use the actual words “go away” in my above quote…

    If carsick has anything “insightful and original” to add, all the better… might keep me from falling asleep at my keyboard!!

    And I see you’ve yet to answer my post about celebrating a Pagan festival… or don’t you celebrate Christmas?? Or don’t you have an answer yet?

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 12:01 pm | Reply

  103. “Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.” Peter 2:18

    “Slavery in the service of God is the finest condition known to man.”

    Nice side-step of the issue, Sisypus, but you’re confusing two issues here. Why is one human perceived to be lower than another? Master and slaves is about subjugarion, not religious service to a god. I thought “we were all made in God’s image” – why the difference in stature?

    Could it be because the bible is the word of man, and so, by definition, flawed?

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 21, 2007 @ 12:13 pm | Reply

  104. Tyler,
    Just as this website, among the thousands you could be visiting right now, has captured your attention in a spell binding way (God is cool like that!) so did God utilize the familiar (pagan festivals celebrated by the uninitiated) to attract and bind them to Him. God likes a party and houses get that funky smell in Winter when the windows are closed so bringing a pine or fir tree inside was just a clever way to cover the musty smell and have an enjoyable time for all. God is the mother of all invention.

    Comment by Carsick — June 21, 2007 @ 12:18 pm | Reply

  105. @ Tyler Durden

    “DPS, here’s my quote to carsick: “I can barely contain a yawn answering your insignificant post. Come on back when you have something insightful and original to say…”

    And you then say: “…why you told carsick to go away the other day” – Kindly show me where I use the actual words “go away” in my above quote…”

    Where is he supposed to “come on back” from if he doesn’t go away first?

    “And I see you’ve yet to answer my post about celebrating a Pagan festival… or don’t you celebrate Christmas?? Or don’t you have an answer yet?”

    Since it is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, it is obviously not a pagan festival. And if there are superficial resemblances between some pagan rites and Christian rites, well, there are superficial resemblances between a hamburger and a tofu burger, too, but they could not be any more different. Of course, a hippie like you probably prefers the tofu burger, but you also prefer paganism, so what else should we expect?

    Comment by DPS — June 21, 2007 @ 12:33 pm | Reply

  106. And I see you’ve yet to answer my post about celebrating a Pagan festival… or don’t you celebrate Christmas?? Or don’t you have an answer yet?

    It’s true that the Roman festival Saturnalia falls roughly around Christmas. However, that does not mean that those who celebrate Christmas are actually celebrating Saturnalia (or Sun-Returning, or any of a number of other animistic or pagan festivals which fall in roughly the same part of the year.) You might as well say that those who celebrate July 4th are actually celebrating Juneteenth — they fall at approximately the same time each year, and are celebrated with very similar rituals.

    Comment by Believer — June 21, 2007 @ 9:40 pm | Reply

  107. Carsick: “God is the mother of all invention.”

    Necessity is the mother of invention – Plato. Taken from “The Republic”, written 360BC.
    Wow. You fundies will steal anything to promote your ignorant, myopic lifestyle.

    “God likes a party and houses get that funky smell in Winter when the windows are closed so bringing a pine or fir tree inside was just a clever way to cover the musty smell and have an enjoyable time for all.”
    I’m not really sure what you’re smoking carsick, but I’d lay off it for a while… self-delusion is a wonderful thing, but do you really want to live your entire life that way?

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 22, 2007 @ 3:20 am | Reply

  108. DPS: “Where is he supposed to “come on back” from if he doesn’t go away first?”

    From a perspective of space and time, of course he (carsick) could leave this forum, and then come back, that’s not in question here… all I’m asking you is: where do I actually tell him to “go away”. You made the claim I said those exact words (“…why you told carsick to go away the other day”), so, back up your claim, show me where I said it.

    “but you also prefer paganism, so what else should we expect?”
    I never said I was a pagan, you did (“I wouldn’t expect a pagan…”). How is it you think you know so much about me?

    “Since it is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, it is obviously not a pagan festival.”
    DPS, you’re missing my point entirely. The Roman festival Saturnalia existed in a time before “Christmas”. Christianity simply “borrowed”, or as I prefer to use, hijacked, the time of year in order to celebrate the alleged birth of Jesus.

    So, when (and if) you do celebrate Christmas, just be aware that it’s not because of the nativity, but because of Saturnalia, the Winter Solstice or some previous event… Christianity has never been known for its originality.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 22, 2007 @ 4:01 am | Reply

  109. Believer: “It’s true that the Roman festival Saturnalia falls roughly around Christmas.”
    No. Christmas falls around the time of the Roman festival Saturnalia.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 22, 2007 @ 4:11 am | Reply

  110. “Ah, I see. My knowledge of Islam is practically zero, thanks for the info; so you’re a theology student/teacher, Sisyphus?”

    No, but in high school I read the Koran. I don’t know if that counts for anything, but there it is.

    Nice side-step of the issue, Sisypus, but you’re confusing two issues here. Why is one human perceived to be lower than another? Master and slaves is about subjugarion, not religious service to a god. I thought “we were all made in God’s image” – why the difference in stature?”

    Well, if you read Aristotle’s “Politics” he directly addresses this very issue. Specifically, if memory serves, he speaks of those born with a “master” mentality and those born with a “slave” mentality. Some are born to rule; others, to be ruled.

    Think that’s harsh? Go back to your job and tell your boss off. Order your manager around. Fire everyone else in the place. Just because we’ve eliminated the word “slavery” from the American legal system doesn’t mean that functionally identical equivalents don’t exist in the American economic system. In a sense, we are all slaves, working for the IRS, the ultimate master. (Yes, I’m aware that your boss probably can’t kill you for the sheer fun of it. You should bear in mind that many of the cruelties associated with slavery in the American South were not as common in the Ancient World; those that were, were nearly as common amongst freemen, where the common rule of “law” was that arrogant satraps, sultans and emperors could pretty much disembowel you as soon as look at you, be you freeman or slave. So that aspect of slavery in Ancient Times, and in the Bible, is substantially less important for this discussion.)

    “No. Christmas falls around the time of the Roman festival Saturnalia.”

    The Romans set it up that way. Their prophets saw the coming of Jesus, but they weren’t Christians so they thought it was the coming of Jove instead. The result was predictable. The Pagan prophets were often correct, but they drew the wrong conclusions from their accurate predictions. That’s why sorcery is outlawed in the Bible.

    Comment by Sisyphus — June 22, 2007 @ 5:25 am | Reply

  111. It has been acknowledged that the first hard evidence of Christmas occurring on Dec. 25 isn’t found until A.D.336 and the date only became a fixed festival in Constantinople in A.D.379. So, why the delay?

    Also, after Emperor Aurelian declared Mithra/Sol Invictus to be the patron of the Roman Empire in A.D.274, this feast in his honor became very popular. Some say that the Christians invented Christmas as an alternative to this popular feast of Mithra’s birth. Yet again, another example of Chrisianity “borrowing” from other cultures. I’ve no problem with borrowing, but at least be aware of the origins of where it came from… and don’t try to pawn it off as your own!

    As for sorcery in the bible: Samuel 28:7-11

    Saul then said to his attendants, “Find me a woman who is a medium, so I may go and inquire of her.”
    “There is one in Endor,” they said.

    So Saul disguised himself, putting on other clothes, and at night he and two men went to the woman. “Consult a spirit for me,” he said, “and bring up for me the one I name.”

    But the woman said to him, “Surely you know what Saul has done. He has cut off the mediums and spiritists from the land. Why have you set a trap for my life to bring about my death?”

    Saul swore to her by the LORD, “As surely as the LORD lives, you will not be punished for this.”

    Then the woman asked, “Whom shall I bring up for you?”
    “Bring up Samuel,” he said.

    “That’s why sorcery is outlawed in the Bible.”
    Sorcery is outlawed, however, murder (Deuteronomy 22:20-21), slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46), rape (Deuteronomy 20:10-14), pillaging (Judges 21:10-24), subjugation of women (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and child abuse (Ezekiel 9:5-7, Kings 2:23-24) are allowed?

    That’s one hell of a contradiction Sisyphus… then again, the bible is one huge contradiction to live one’s life by.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 22, 2007 @ 7:20 am | Reply

  112. Tyler,
    You truly think Plato comes before God? Go read Ecclesiastes I sometime.

    Comment by carsick — June 22, 2007 @ 7:46 am | Reply

  113. Tyler Durden:

    ‘”DPS: “Where is he supposed to “come on back” from if he doesn’t go away first?”

    From a perspective of space and time, of course he (carsick) could leave this forum, and then come back, that’s not in question here… all I’m asking you is: where do I actually tell him to “go away”. You made the claim I said those exact words (“…why you told carsick to go away the other day”), so, back up your claim, show me where I said it.’

    This is the lamest thing you have said yet. Come on back when you have something to say that makes sense.🙂

    “but you also prefer paganism, so what else should we expect?”
    I never said I was a pagan, you did (“I wouldn’t expect a pagan…”). How is it you think you know so much about me?

    We can all smell your pagan funk.

    “Since it is a celebration of the birth of Jesus, it is obviously not a pagan festival.”
    DPS, you’re missing my point entirely. The Roman festival Saturnalia existed in a time before “Christmas”. Christianity simply “borrowed”, or as I prefer to use, hijacked, the time of year in order to celebrate the alleged birth of Jesus.

    So, when (and if) you do celebrate Christmas, just be aware that it’s not because of the nativity, but because of Saturnalia, the Winter Solstice or some previous event… Christianity has never been known for its originality.”

    1). If I raze your house and build a church on top of it, am I inadvertently worshipping you instead of God?

    2). As is well known, the Saturnalia was celebrated on the 16th day before the Kalends of January. Christmas is December 25th. These are not the same day.

    “Sorcery is outlawed, however, murder (Deuteronomy 22:20-21), slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46), rape (Deuteronomy 20:10-14), pillaging (Judges 21:10-24), subjugation of women (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and child abuse (Ezekiel 9:5-7, Kings 2:23-24) are allowed?”

    That’s right.

    Comment by DPS — June 22, 2007 @ 8:23 am | Reply

  114. ANYONE who thinks invading a country and killing its citizens is a good thing, scares the fucking shit out of me.

    I’m so happy your man here has no chance in ever getting into office, as this notion of pro-war, pro-death, because people lie to you… is exactly opposite of what people with functioning brains and a hint of intelligence would ever, ever, EVER, allow themselves to think.

    You people are disgusting.

    Comment by Volumptuous Tube — June 22, 2007 @ 3:55 pm | Reply

  115. ““Sorcery is outlawed, however, murder (Deuteronomy 22:20-21), slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46), rape (Deuteronomy 20:10-14), pillaging (Judges 21:10-24), subjugation of women (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and child abuse (Ezekiel 9:5-7, Kings 2:23-24) are allowed?”

    That’s right.”

    Wow, comparing to that, even the law of the mongols were more civilised.

    Comment by PG — June 22, 2007 @ 4:05 pm | Reply

  116. ‘““Sorcery is outlawed, however, murder (Deuteronomy 22:20-21), slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46), rape (Deuteronomy 20:10-14), pillaging (Judges 21:10-24), subjugation of women (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and child abuse (Ezekiel 9:5-7, Kings 2:23-24) are allowed?”

    That’s right.”

    Wow, comparing to that, even the law of the mongols were more civilised.’

    Tyler Durden’s terms are tendentious, of course. He calls ‘murder’ what in fact is justified execution, etc. But he is right that we must do what the Bible commands us to.

    Comment by DPS — June 22, 2007 @ 5:45 pm | Reply

  117. “Tyler Durden’s terms are tendentious, of course. He calls ‘murder’ what in fact is justified execution, etc. But he is right that we must do what the Bible commands us to.”

    As a pro-lifer, I can only say one thing: Regardless of what you call it, it´s still murder. THat also applies to all the other crimes. Damn, even the Koran is less extreme than this one.

    Comment by PG — June 23, 2007 @ 12:59 am | Reply

  118. “Sorcery is outlawed, however, murder (Deuteronomy 22:20-21), slavery (Leviticus 25:44-46), rape (Deuteronomy 20:10-14), pillaging (Judges 21:10-24), subjugation of women (Deuteronomy 22:28-29) and child abuse (Ezekiel 9:5-7, Kings 2:23-24) are allowed?”

    “That’s right.”

    “Tyler Durden’s terms are tendentious, of course. He calls ‘murder’ what in fact is justified execution, etc. But he is right that we must do what the Bible commands us to.”

    Wow! I guess if you converse with these fundies long enough you find out that they’d rather kill you than disagree and/or tolerate you. It’s no wonder the world is the way it is.

    Comment by Tyler Durden — June 25, 2007 @ 4:18 am | Reply


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